1500 Tournament... can I fit in Tyrannofex?

[rampagingfex]

This is a little bit of a list building question and a little bit of a general question about Tyrannofex.

First, I really want to play a Tyrannofex, but not sure 1500 is the right point level for it. In general, I think he's gotten a little better in this edition, and he's got lots of 2+ save wounds. I really like being able to fire three weapons, and with cluster spines I'm thinking large blast, torrent, and flamer have potential to make him really good at close range. My plan would be to move towards the enemy as quickly as possible and make them deal with him, either presenting a big threat that can't be dealt with, or pulling lots of shooting from the Trygons and Tervigons. I'm just not sure on the points.

On to the list. I really want to have a lot of models on the board, and I really like MCs. I think hormogaunts and gargoyles are a great deal and I want to try out devilgaunts. The swarms are in there because they add to the horde feel, and also I think people will overestimate their ability and will try and kill them. I actually may split them into units of 3 if there are troop slots left over. I'm not worried about first blood, but would like to play as many ripper bases and gants for the fluff/feel. I feel like I need hive guard, but really not entirely sure. The tournament has paint score for best ELITE unit so I'd like to bring at least one to compete.

Gameplan with this army would be to line up the Trygons and Tyrannofex, along with gargoyles and hormogaunts and make a run towards the enemy. The devilgaunts will be shooting and the Tervigon spawning. The idea would be to overwhelm the enemy defenses, since there is only so much shooting that the enemy can have at 1500 points. My main concern is that I don't have enough synapse and shooting (for flyers). The Tyrannofex could be swapped out for a dakkafex and a prime, or even just a dakkafex and a spore shifting this into a more reserve-oriented list (with podded devilgaunts, etc...). I'm just not certain I could pull that off without a Hive Commander Tyrant.

so basically... I'm being pulled in to many directions at one... Help me focus on a gameplan!

Here's the army list:
HQ Tervigon, Cluster Spines 160
TROOP 20x Termagaunts, Devourers 200
TROOP 20x Hormogaunts 120
TROOP 9x Ripper Swarms 90 (or 3 units of 3 for overwatch)
ELITE 2x Hive Guard 100
FAST 20x Gargoyles, adrenal glands 140
HEAVY Trygon Prime 240
HEAVY Trygon 200
HEAVY Tyrannofex, Acid Spray, Cluster Spines, Dessicator Thorax 250

I have lots of models to work with:
1 swarmlord (magnetized but only 1 set of devourers availble)
2 Tyranid Prime (lw&bs)
2 Trygons
1Tervigon
1Tyrannofex
1 dakkafex
3 crushing scything carnifexen
1 harpy
6 tyrant guards
3 Hive Guard
3 zoanthropes
30 devilgaunts
30 fleshborer gaunts
5 raveners
5 warriors
unlimited genestealers
unlimited hormogaunts
20 gargs
6 mycetic spores
10 ripper swarms
2 biovores
10 Spore mines

[wisdomseyes1]

Unlimited genestealers... 0.o oh dear, someone has either had a rich family or been playing for a long time.

For your "at least one elite" I would have used y genestealers. Assuming you aren't, of course, aiming for the bet painted reward and think your hive guard are better.

1) tervigon needs at least catalyst, if nothing else. Stinger salvo might be a bit better with overwatch and AV11 fliers. That insugnificant weapon option is preferential. I also would like to see toxin sacs for the sole purpose of termagants, as well as its own reroll to wound potential.

2) I might consider making the gants units a bit smaller.

3) rippers to be fluffy... Fine... But... They are worthless at doing anything, overwatch or not. They are slower than your hormagaunts, your termagants won't care. And your opponent has to actually choose to overwatch them, which may be done before rolls are made for charge distance but... I cant see them actually mattering in any way. Have you actually had any experiance with them helping you with overwatch? Overwatch has only ever hurt me personally once, and i have played a lot of lists. If you want them for fluff reasons, okay... But I would suggest at least dropping 3 bases, saves you so many points.

4) gargoyles should have TS and adrenal glands. If not both, then toxin sacs. Rerolls to wound on t3, wounds t4 on an off the charge. Wounds higher toughness consistently. It is just all around better. No initiative buff and very little use of transports means AG isn't all that great anymore, and it's use really boils down to rerolls to wound against marines on the charge.

5) why did you make the trygon a prime? I assume synapse which in a list like this I can understand. You are a bit lacking on it.

That's what I have for now, take from it what you will.

[Deleted]

2 Biovores cost the same as 9 Ripper Swarms and will remove more overwatch fire by causing casualties than the rippers would by soaking them up and possibly give KPs in the process.

Just a thought, although I want to run Rippers too :-P

[Akrim]

Im still run my Rupture Cannon Tyrannofex at 1500pts. Even as a linebacker unit, those S10 shots in the first few rounds are valuable against vehicle heavy lists.

As mentioned, Ymgarls are a pretty good option too. As long as you're not on tables that are sparse on area terrain.

[the6thdegree]

I like TFex's for their early game heavy mech popping ability, but in a 1500pt game I think I would rather lean towards taking 2x2 Hive Guards than a single TFex.

[rampagingfex]

Thanks for the input. You have articulated what I've been feeling deep down but unable to admit to myself. Rippers and Tyrannofex are out... but what to put in?

How many Ymgarl would you run? Will they work even if nothing else is in reserve?

What do you think about Doom in a pod?

1x Tyranid Prime, Lash Whip and Bonesword, Toxin Sacs 105
20x Termagaunts, Devourers 200
1x Tervigon, Stinger Salvo, Toxin Sacs, Catalyst 185
20x Hormogaunts 120
2x Hive Guard 100
10x Ymgarl Genestealers 230
20x Gargoyles, adrenal glands, toxin sacs 160
1x Trygon 200
1x Trygon 200

[wisdomseyes1]

5-7 y genestealers is a good idea they easily fit in terrain without worring about opponents sticking models in there an killing them. They can deal with overwatch and won't kill the enemy in one round of assault. And yes, they work even if nothing else is in reserves. The point of alternate deployment types is to hit opponents from deferent angles than they can deal with. Sadly outflanking got a hit, which is why y genestealers got so much more hype than before. Doesn't mean they are the best unit, but they are a great elite choice with the number of tanks going down.

[Akrim]

I love Ymgarls, but 10 is too large a unit. You don't want them to attract that much attention. IMO 7-8 is the ideal size at 1500pts. U may be hard pressed to get that many into a piece of area terrain at times.

I consider them to be the ultimate assassin/denial unit. Designate them a target the enemy feels safe and destroy it. Then bunker down and see what happens. Good unit to go for Linebreaker with too.

My suggestion if you're leaving out the Tyranno, drop a couple Ymgarls and boost the Hive Guard to 3. Early game, they're going to get hit alot.

[rampagingfex]

NEW LIST... any more changes to be had? Feels like I'm a really light on synapse, but I think I can protect the prime if needed. I also feel like most players at the tournament won't be familiar with synapse and how to exploit it. Do I take BIOMANCY on the Tervigon now that he has three powers? Or should I just drop onslaught and add some gaunts or upgrades back into the list?

Nids: 1500
1x Tyranid Prime, Lash Whip and Bonesword, Toxin Sacs 105
19x Termagaunts, Devourers (190)
1x Tervigon, Stinger Salvo, Toxin Sacs, Catalyst, Onslaught (200)
19x Hormogaunts (114)
3x Hive Guard (150)
7x Ymgarl Genestealers (161)
20x Gargoyles, adrenal glands, toxin sacs (160)
1x Trygon, Toxin Sacs (210)
1x Trygon, Toxin Sacs (210)

-RF

[wisdomseyes1]

Do you think you need the TS on the trygons? It wounds on 2+ most of the time anyway, is the rerolls of 1 worth 10 points to you, or do you have intention to try and kill t5+ as well?

Pointy gants like TS. You can drop a few gants here and there from both units to get it to optimum performance.

That's just my opinion. The list works the way it is, I am just a synopses creature of habit. I like poison on our smaller bugs and I have found the 10 points that is sometimes useful is marginally useless compared to other options we could be doing (5 of those gants gets poison themselves, great for their own combat that is otherwise sub par)

Biomancy is the most popular option to go with a tervigon. Iron arm makes it very resilient, endurance is catalyst ++, and warp speed + crushing claws makes for massive damage when you smash.

The choice is yours before the game. You run a small risk of losing the feel no pain effect if you exchange for biomancy, so don't exchange if you want it. Other disciplines have things you might want as well, but overall the general idea is that biomancy fits a tervigons usual role more effectively

[rampagingfex]

Played essentially the list above in a tournament today. Went 2-1 and won best painted. I had massive victories against Deathwing and Black Templars (tabled my first opponent in about a year) and a close-until-the-last-turn loss against a very competative army of Dark Eldar with Eldar allies that was being fine-tuned for a GT-level tournament. For my first 3 games with nids since 4th edition, and first ever game with this assortment of models, I'd say this was pretty encouraging sign. I'm not sure I would have done as well with one of my other armies that I have more experience with. I am really impressed with nids, and excited to play them more. Also, I learned a lot and should be able to make them even more competitive next time.

Some things I learned:
- The armies with terminators were really easy to handle, as both the gargoyles and hormogaunts had their way with them.
- Enfeeble was really good. Firing 20 devourers at T3 terminators then charging with hemies or gargs was just plain fun.
- Dark Eldar venoms are annoying. More hive guard may be needed.
- Long-deployment is tough against heavy shooting armies... I had to cross a long long way to get to them sneaky elves.
- outflanking devourergaunts was good, may need to try that again.
- Prime is really resilient... never really had a synapse problem even with only 2 models in the entire army with it.
- Prime is really good in close combat... I never really rated him, but with LoS and improved fearless, he can take a lot.

-RF