is... is this list TOO powerful? (1750pt)

[drakiskier]

All through 5th edition, a friend of mine would take mostly the same lists, and it was always back and forth who would win when I took my tau, but he always slaughtered me when i took nids.

When 6th edition showed up, we both took 2 weeks off from gaming to learn the new rules and such, and then started battling each other again. I went back to my first love, Tyranids, using the list I will state below. he took the same list as always... and I DECIMATED him... he resigned on turn three after having nearly nothing left.

Since then I have taken the same list to give him a chance to adapt to the new play style and try and find a way to counter such a list. but its now 4 games and he is still slaughtered every time.

I haven't had an opportunity to test on other armies yet, but I'm wondering if this list is _TOO_ good?

I field:
HQ
Dakka Flyrant (2x TL BL devs)
Elite
8x Ymgarl
3x Zoanthrope
Troop
10x Termagaunt
10x Termagaunt
Tervigon
Tervigon
Heavy
3x Dakkafex (2x TL BL devs each)

At first I was wary of sinking 600pts into the fexes... but after that first game I was astounded at how much they did.

The first time we played this list, he tried to focus on the fexes, and it took three rounds of his entire army shooting to take down the three fexes (FNP <3), and I had 2 tervs and 50 gaunts left on the board.

Since then he has tried to ignore them and focus on the tervigons, only to get minced by the fexes as they plod up the center of the map.

Today in one round of shooting on turn two of the match, the dakkafexes took out 8 of 10 assault terminators he had tried to block me with... and by turn 4, he was practically locked in a single 2'x2' board corner, desperately trying to hang on and not get tabled.


Am I being cheezy with this list, or is it just the new direction that nids are going this edition?

[Deleted]

It's not a cheesy list, you just found a good fit for your style/meta! Enjoy wrecking with Nids for once!

[coredump]

First, in 5th, if you were winning with Tau, but getting creamed with Nids.... something was terribly wrong.


With this list... you have nothing to play wound allocation games with, and nothing with an invuln save, nor better than a 3+ save. He really should not have a problem beating this list; especially if he knows it is the list coming at him.

What army is he playing? Can you give a sample list?

[N.I.B.]

You have a good list, I wouldn't worry about 'cheese'. But if you only play friendly games you should work out the power level with your friends in the local meta instead of asking the global internet.

Seems you've discovered some of the joys of 6th ed changes - mech is brittle, you get FNP against AP1-2, and Flyrant is hard to kill. But I assume your opponent is not playing Necrons.

[killme304]

Needz moar Hive Guard.

Seriously now, it just so happens that you have a number of our best units in 6th (imo). Dakka is king in 6th, and S6 is good enough for vehicle poping these days if you can put it out in volume like Brain Leach worms do.

[bebe]

What point level is that? I'm getting it at around 1650 points? Certainly more than 1500 and less than 1750.
265
184
120
195
195
50
50
570
That said your elites are kind of meh - I would use HG and your Dakkafexes are nice but without primes tasty targets. Youtr opponent needs to rethink his list. Do you have his list?

[nalathani]

Is that all walking across the board? If it's all slogging he shouldn't be losing that badly. he'll have 2 or 3 rounds of shooting before you're in CC. If you were dropping those Dakkafexes and Zoans in spores, then yes he'd have a hell of a hard time with it since you'd wreck 3 or 4 vehicles in one round and then assault the turn after.

[voraciousapathy]

Ymgarls are better now than they were in 5e, and in 5e they were godly if you used 'em like a smart person. They are now exceptionally effective unit assassins, and can really wreak havoc if you stick Catalyst on them, and keep 'em in Synapse with the T5 morph.

Zoanthropes give you some rolls on psychic tables, or else super-powered psychic lances, so I like 'em better in 6e as well (especially at 2000+, when our second FoC opens up, and you can afford a squad of 3 with 3 other Elite choices).

Carnifexes are swell -- Endurance and Invisibility, and you're good to go. Jaws is still a problem, but not as bad as it used to be with Deny The Witch, Shadow in the Warp effecting embarked squads, and THEN getting an Initiative test to avoid it.

Tervigons are vastly improved, and were already awesome.

Flyrant is kind of cool, but in a world where no one really knows if you take multiple Grounded tests, and if you fail one, are you hard to hit, and, and, and ... I personally like to avoid units which have rule ambiguity until they're resolved. If they remain Hard To Hit even with a failed Grounded test (i.e., they're "falling"), it sort of improves them, but I personally prefer the raw psychic versatility and Special Rules of the Swarmlord -- why bother yourself with actually killing Terminators with your swords, when you can just make them Hallucinate and kill themselves for you?

I like the army, but I'd like to see more redundancy in the Elite section -- people can focus down the Zoanthropes, and one squad of Ymgarls is disruptive, but not really game-changing.

[coredump]

I wonder how wound allocation works with Hallucinate?

[drakiskier]

He plays ultramarines, used to play a mech list, but is moving away from mech now because of how brittle tanks are. He usually fields a stormtalon flyer, some rhinos, and has been mixing it up what he takes to find something that works in 6th. Next week he is gonna try a land raider, see if it is worth the points in 6th.

Its a 1750pt list. I'm actually wasting alot of points on useless upgrades though, including old adversary on the flyrant (which has yet to even be taken into effect) and buying the works for the tervs (tox, adr, and both extra powers) in case I feel like swapping out some psychic abils.

I have hive guard, but didn't want to take them in this list.

The flyrant has been very good so far, and as I see it, if someone shoots and hits, you take the grounded test, if you fail, you fall to the ground and become a normal MC until your next turn. This means any further shooting is at normal BS, and the MC can be assaulted. If you succeed at the test, then you are still a flying MC, and he still needs snap shots to hit. Lather rinse repeat.

I refuse to use the swarmlord or doom, or any special characters... I'm a splinter fleet, not a main fleet.

Yes, I am footslogging it up the center of the board. Nothing is in pods, the flyrant is in reserve, the ymgarls are secret deploy. Deploy the fexes in the center, one terv on each flank about a foot away, zoans positioned right behind the fexes. First turn, FNP on the fexes and the terv closest to any threats, move the fexes up, then run them as well. Spawn, move up, etc. Second turn, FNP again, move the fexes up with shuffling any damaged ones to the back row, and then unload on the closest target. Generally by turn 2, I'm within 18" of something that the fexes can mulch, unless he is deployed in the absolute furthest corner, in which I just run some more. Meanwhile at turn two I have at least 6 scoring units (more if the tervs didn't poop themselves out) moving onto points and becoming hard to dislodge.

The friend I play against commented that there is very good target priority in this list... With 5 main groups: The massive dakka of death, The two spawners at the flanks, The swooping death, and The OMG STEALERS... He doesn't even prioritize the zoanthropes because they are such a small target to him, especially with the 3+ invuln. Though his space marines do fear the warp blast from the zoans... as it is AP3.

I will be going to my LGS and testing the list against some other armies later on today.

[Tempests Wrath]

Let us know how it goes!

Id love to see how that holds up against other armies. I have a friend who would be overjoyed if he knew he could reliably use his fexen as fexen again

[drakiskier]

alas, i was unable to game today... store was closed! my next availble time to game will be next thurs... i work all day sat-wed.

[Psychichobo]

That does look like a good list actually. I would probably take something similar if I didn't love stealers so much.

However, I would've definitely taken something over the 3 Dakkafexen, and not realised how nasty they are. Target priority in this list must be HILARIOUS.

[drakiskier]

i had another game against my regular marine opponent, and this was the first time i lost to him with this list, out of 5 games!

granted, i was running on 5 hours sleep, rolling poorly, and my strategy consisted purely of run at him screaming because i was too tired to really think of anything better... He had an ADL set up in a corner and hid everything behind it for 4+ cover, and a landraider that kept getting in the way of the carnifexes and denying them the ability to dakka anything, and in two full rounds of assaulting the LR with carnifexes, i took off ONE hull point with a glance. meanwhile his scouts snuck in behind with a flank and got my zoans into close combat, who then every turn took two wounds, and failed both 3++ saves.

and in the end he only won by two victory points...



I have tweaked the list slightly, trimming off wasted points and upgrades that havent even gotten used, and managed to squeeze in a 2xBS prime in the list as well... something that can join the fexes as they run up, or join a squad of gaunts or any other stuff.

[rpricew]

Nice list... sounds fun to play. Simple, but crushing in the right circumstances. Looking forward to seeing some battle reports. Maybe you could post a picture of your army.