Old Adversary question

[turndamage]

When my Hive Tyrant brings Old Adversary, he and those around him gain preferred enemy.
My question has to do with shooting since, in 5th, preferred enemy had nothing to do with this phase. In particular, blast weapons.

If I have a hive tyrant with a heavy venom cannon, and he has preferred enemy, can he re-roll all of his scatter die?

Preferred enemy states that a model can "...re-rolls failed to hit and to wound rolls of 1...".
Blast Weapons and Re-rolls states that "If a model has the ability to re-roll it's rolls to hit..." it can roll both scatter dice and 2d6.

So, this is kind of ambiguous unless there's a third rule describing this that i'm missing. I feel like my HT and a carnifex nearby, both with HVCs, can reroll their scatter die if they want to. I would argue that the models have the ability to reroll normal rolls to hit (of 1) via the rules of preferred enemy. In re-rolling of blast weapons, it doesn't specify anything about what dice you are rerolling to hit, just if you are capable of doing so.

Obviously, the rule more appropriately describes the rules of twin-linked (as in our harpys), but what do you all think about my Heavy Venom Cannon on the Hive Tyrant?

[Deleted]

Im pretty sure if you reroll scatter, you reroll both dice. Thats how reroll scatter work in all other instance I've seen. As for HVCs, they aren't popular because they are a poor choice at taking out armor, but if you regularly face 4+sv armies like necrons i can see them being of some use.

[wisdomseyes1]

Are you asking if you can reroll ones on the scatter distance... Because I don't think you can and if you could it wouldn't be advantageous.

A scatter dice itself, however, can never roll a 1 so will never e able to be rerolled with prefered enemy.

[turndamage]

hm. I don't think i was clear with my question because neither of you are answering it.

I'm only referring to the rules above. forget the venom cannon. Any weapon that is a blast can be re-rolled (scatter dice and 2d6) if you are able to reroll your 'to hit' rolls. Preferred enemy allows you to reroll your hits (albeit, 1s only). If you have preferred enemy, can you reroll your blast weapons if they scatter?

I hope this is more clear. Of course you would not want to reroll double 1's on the 2d6 scatter, because in nearly every case, you will be hitting directly on target.

[wisdomseyes1]

You can never reroll blast weapons from prefered enemy if you can't meet the prereqeset (which is rolling a 1)

I didn't misunderstand, you can't roll a '1' on a scatter dice, so you can't reroll it. And yes, a scatter dude is the roll "to hit" (1/3 of the options are called "hits")

[turndamage]

Well, that's the issue i'm trying to bring up right there. You are of course correct that preferred enemy means you reroll 1s to hit. So we are all on the same page now: when i shoot with a weapon and I have preferred enemy, I can reroll my 1s To Hit. This means that I am rerolling a To Hit roll (again, albeit, of my 1s only).

So were together so far, right?

There is a specific entry in the rulebook called "Blast Weapons and Re-rolls"
Here, it says that: "If a model has the ability to re-roll it's rolls to hit..." it can roll both scatter dice and 2d6. The key word here is 'ABILITY'.

Does a hive tyrant have the ability to reroll it's to hit dice? Yes, it does, if they are 1s. This would then mean that it can choose to reroll both the scatter dice and the 2d6 for distance. Of course there is no roll of 1 on a scatter dice; i didn't mean to imply that. nor would the 2d6 distance roll have anything to do with this either because, as you so pointed out, a scatter dice roll (involving 3 die) is the 'to hit' roll.

Hopefully this clears things up slightly more.

[wisdomseyes1]

I reviewed that section right before I posted my last post.

It is not ABLE to get a 1 on the "to hit" roll, so it may not reroll the scatter dice.

This is similarly worded to feel no pain last edition if you still have the 5th edition rulebook and wish to review that.

[fragile]

The new Preferred Enemy USR will not allow you to reroll blast weapons. Other things like Twin Linked will.

[turndamage]

@wisdomseyes: you wouldn't be able to give me a quote on the fnp for the 5th edition rulebook would you? I don't have it anymore (read: can't find it). curious to see your point of view.

[wisdomseyes1]

I don't have a quote from the rulebook for you. I have page 5 which defines the symbol on a scatter dice as "hit!" and I have prefered enemy which says, "rerolls to hit and to wound of 1's against its preferred enemy"

You are able to reroll if you roll a 1. You are not able to reroll if you don't roll a one. Therefore, becaus you are not able to roll a 1 (not using a d6) you are not able to reroll, and therefore page 33 (blasts and rerolls) never takes effect

I can't have a quote for you because this particular question isn't in the rules. It's aquired knowledge from 3-4 sections

[DarkGuard]

I'm with wisdomseyes here, you can't roll a 1 with a scatter role, therefore you can't re-roll the scatter dice. If it was worded "preferred enemy lets you re-roll failed rolls to hit", then yes, you get the re-roll with blast weapons. But you don't get that wording, you get the re-roll only on ones. So a normal "to-hit" roll, not a blast weapon scatter roll. So you don't get the re-roll with the venom cannon.

[turndamage]

Thanks all for the clarification!