question on the out of range rule

[ragnarok]

Came across an interesting wound pool allocation… abuse, maybe exploitation?

Scenario
Brood of 8 stealers
2 out of cover, the other 6 in cover

Marine combat squad opens fire.

Flame hits, and can only hit the two Genestealers out of cover. Wounds both of them

4 bolters rapid fire and cause 3 wounds.

wound pool
3 AP5 wounds
2 AP5 ignore cover wounds

allocation
Bolter wounds were allocated first. Hitting the closest 3 models, 2 out of cover (no save so they both die), 1 in cover fails cover save and dies

Flamer wound pool is then allocated 2 more stealers die due to no save and ignored cover.

This is supported by the out of range rule on page 16.

This can lead to very strange situations

For example:
Unit of fodder. In a T shape. 3 across at the front then a conga line behind them.

Guard platoon command squad opens fire, with 4 heavy flamers and a boltgun. The flamers all hit the front 3 only, causing 12 wounds. Due to the fact all of the rest of the squad are in range of the boltgun more can die to the heavy flamers!


Am I, and my group, reading the out of range rule properly?

[Deleted]

Apparently so, although if there were in cover that blocked LOS then the flamer wounds would just be dumped. Sounds like a nasty use of that rule Sounds like a house rule is in order so you don't start seeing flamers with bolter ranges. It doesn't specify how this plays out with multiple weapon types in a unit.

[andy089]

While we're at it: Whats the story with Artillery and nightfighting?
Especially the deathstrike missile launcher - I mean....does an intercontinental rocket cannot be shot because they can't see the target because it's night? 0.0

[Deleted]

Well if you want to be realistic about it, how can an intercontinental rocket hit a target 50 feet away?

[lostminds]

It flies around the world once of course.

[Psychichobo]

Yup. How else can you make sure that pesky lone Fire Warrior is dead?

[coredump]

To the OP: you are not reading the rule correctly.

The bolter is completely unnecessary in your example.
If the only guns shooting are the flamers, they can still take out the models.

As long as a single enemy model is in range, you can take out the entire target unit. (unless no LoS)

[ragnarok]

Aug 8, 2012 21:33:41 GMT coredump said:

To the OP: you are not reading the rule correctly.

The bolter is completely unnecessary in your example.
If the only guns shooting are the flamers, they can still take out the models.

As long as a single enemy model is in range, you can take out the entire target unit. (unless no LoS)

Are you sure?

The rule says “As Long as a model was in range of the enemy when to hit rolls were made, he is considered to be in range for the duration of the shooting attack, even if the removal of casualties means that the closest model is now out of range.”

From this I read the model needs to be able to be shot at to be removed as a casualty.

Example 1:
A marine shoots a range 8” assault 20 bolt pistol (new ward dex) at an enemy squad. Only 2 enemy are in range, out of a squad of 10.

From the first line of the rule only the first two models can be killed, since the rest were not in range when the to hit rolls were made

Example 2:
A marine shoots a range 8” assault 20 bolt pistol (new ward dex) at an enemy squad. Only 2 enemy are in range, out of a squad of 10. His mate fires a bolter, which now brings the entire squad into range.

Now all of the enemy can be hit, even if the bolter misses, since they were all in range when the to hit dice were rolled, even though most of them are out of range of the wounding hits.

[Jabberwocky]

Rag, you are reading the rule from the wrong perspective. The model, talked about in the first line, is the firing model, not the target. The enemy is the target.

As long as the flamer/pistollier was in range to fire on the unit, he can kill every model no matter how conga lined they are.

The only rule considered on the target model by model basis is cover and by extension being completely out of LoS.

[ragnarok]

Gotta love rules that can easily be read in more than one way.

[Deleted]

We have been saved!

Read "Template Weapons & Focus Fire" on pg.52, in short they can't focus fire and if their unit does they still just plop down their template as normal.

[fragile]

How does that save us?

[Deleted]

Because templates cant make use of the out of range rule, they always use their template unless WoD. Rereading Out of Range also "when To Hit rolls are made", so templates have nothing to do with this rule.

[fragile]

That rule, in short, basically says that you have Genestealers in a line. 2 in cover and 2 out of cover. E is the guy the flamer.

( G...G..).G...G.... E

The unit that E is in states it will focus fire and hit only the Genestealers in the open. They cannot wound the 2 in cover. E with the flamer drops his template over all 4 Genestealers and hits all 4 and wounds all 4. The template is not bound by the "cover save" limitation that Focus Fire gives. It is treated as a normal shooting attack, as always.

[Deleted]

Yeah, thats correct. Just saying you couldn't use tye out of range rule to boodt the flamers distance