Another one joins the Swarm! 1500 or 1750 pt.army?

[munchies]

Greetings everyone.

(I'm sorry for any bad grammar / spelling - English is not my first language)

First of all I would like to say hello to everyone on the board since I'm new here. I've been lurking around here for quite some time now - mainly on the general and army list board, and have therefore already read some ideas and comments for army lists and such.

I've decided to get into WH 40k after I spend half a year in South America as an exchange student, since I normally wasted too much time in front of my computer back home. I've previously played Warhammer Fantasy in the edition from 2000, where I've 2k points in Dark elves and around 2 k points in Chaos Tzeentch. I used to play with some friends back then and such in the little town where I lived, but since most stopped playing I decided to stop too. But since I'm now moving to Copenhagen again I finally have some new people to play with and such....

Anyway. I've tried to make an outline for my 'Nid army. I originally planned to build an 1750 pt. army, but since my army list in my opinion fitted so well with a 1.5 k army list as well, I decided to stay with that at first, since I'm a poor student and therefore don't have too much money to spend on playing with toy figures.

The things I'm interested in opinions and comments on are:
- Are my army list usable in 6 ed? (As mentioned I'm new so I've no idea of the meta - I don't plan to roll an "I win army" but would be nice to win once in a while)
- I've heard a lot about tank spam and AA being a trouble for the 'Nids. Is this list well enough to handle armors?
- What would you change, if anything?
- Would you stick to 1.5 k points or should I go for my original planned 1750 points? If so what should I add / remove?

Also general comments and critique is much appreciated!

My list is:

HQ

Hive tyrant - total= 345 pt.
- Twin Linked devourers with brain Leech worms x2 = 30 pt.
- Old Adversary
- regeneration
- Wings


Troops:

Termagant Brood 1 100 pt.
- 10 units
- 10 devourer

Termagant Brood 2 50 pt.
1 units =

Tervigon 1 205 pt.
- crushing claws
- adrenal glands
- toxin sacs
- catalyst

Tervigon 2 205 pt.
- crushing claws
- adrenal glands
- toxin sacs
- catalyst

Hormagaunt Brood 160 pt.
- 20 hormagaunt
- toxin sacs


Elites

Hive guard brood 2 100 pt.
- 2 hive guard

Hive guard brood 2 100 pt.
- 2 hive guard

The Doom of Malan'tai + Mycetic Spore 130 pt.

Fast Attack

Gargoyle Brood 98 pt.

15 Gargoyles = 90 pt.
15 Adrenal Glands
total 1500 pt.

[scorpio]

I think your list works I well in general. Tervigons are now good at popping tanks, especially with the crushing claws you've put on them. The hive guard will probably be alright at taking on flyers that come your way but don't count on it! Your tyrant can vector strike flyers if need be with is wings. A note though, having she'll and wings on a tyrant is a huge points sink on one model. Consider dropping one of them and maybe adding a guard to increase survivability. Other than that, seems to be a good list. Also, welcome to the hive!

[munchies]

Thanks a lot for both the answer and the warm welcome. The Hive seems like a very nice forum indeed. I was thinking about the wings vs. shell point sink as well. particularly with the chance to hit being so low on flying monsters added up with regeneration.

Would it be an idea to maybe remove the hormagaunts together with the shell and put in some more firepower, AA or beefier CC units? I just think that hormaG's seems like a nice tarpit and a sweet way to block of unwanted chargers from the Tervigons?

[scorpio]

Maybe replace the hormagaunts with some gene stealers with a brood lord as that gives some pyschic support aswell. When using them I would recommend infiltrate into cover and stick to cover most of the time as they are quite fragile, in close combat though they will wreck most units the opposition has to offer. Glad you like the forum.

[munchies]

I was considering that as well. Purely meta wise I was just thinking that I would lose some of my tarpit effect plus that Hormazillas are easy to relocate and are not being in the way that often.

You might by all likeliness be right tho' thanks for the advice.

[tanagra]

Maybe I've missed something, but I was under the impression that wings and armor shell fall under a "pick one of these" catagory?

[munchies]

Aug 3, 2012 18:14:57 GMT tanagra said:

Maybe I've missed something, but I was under the impression that wings and armor shell fall under a "pick one of these" catagory?

Damn nature, You're right. Well that made everything a lot easier. Thanks a lot. Any suggestions on where to relocate the 40 pts. from the shell?

[munchies]

Okay, I've changed the list slightly. Taking normal stealers instead of Ygmarl. Furthermore I've added a bunch of gargoyles.

My question is now:

- Do I need more synapse creatures to handle particularly the Gargoyles?

- Do I need more CC creatures instead of Gargoyles to protect my Tervigons?

- Are my Stealer Brood big enough or will it be nuked from orbit?

- General overall thoughts and advice?

Thanks in advance!

By the way. I'm going to my FLGS tomorrow to by my first models. Not sure if I should get a battle force or not to be able to start some early games with a converted 'Nid prime and stuff. Really depends if I'm able to convert my Horma into Terma gaunts? is this possible or not?

[yoritomo]

If you keep posting point costs for individual models and upgrades we are going to need to have a little talk out back that you will not enjoy.

Besides, why would you want the advice from someone who needs you to tell him how much each unit is? You want advice from people who either know this stuff off the top of their head or are dedicated enough to look it up in their own codex. Spoon feeding every little bit of information to people just invites bad advice from people who don't know what they are talking about.



As for actual advice, I would say your stealers are too expensive. The broodlord is great, but the adrinal glands are not that good now that they do not give you a bonus to your initative. Scything talons should never be taken unless you are trying to spend the last few points and do not have any more models. Do the math; 8 stealers have 16 attacks. If you take scything talons you will get to re-roll two, maybe three, misses. Meanwhile you have already got ten hits, two more is not that impressive.

"But Yori," I hear you all cry "More hits means more chances to wound!" True, but let us look at that. If you assume it is a straight up 4+ to wound you would get 5 wounds normally and 6 with the talons. I am not impressed with that. Now if you look at toxin sacs you will see that re-roll to wound gives you 7 or 8 wounds with those same 5 hits, plus a second chance to rend. That is impressive.

[eugee]

Take an hour or so to read Loate's Unit Tactica. 95% of it is still applicable in 6th edition.

I'm of the personal opinion that Hormagaunts are best with Adrenal & Toxin (more poison rerolls and glance vehicles to death).
I also think gargoyles need Adrenal & Toxin (more poison rerolls and glace vehicles to death, cheap!)
I think Genestealers are wasting points on anything besides Toxin. You already have I6 and S4 poison rerolls.

[Deleted]

If you aren't going to trade his psyker powers in drop Regen, use Leech Essence and spend the 20 elsewhere.

[munchies]

Aug 6, 2012 12:27:08 GMT yoritomo said:

As for actual advice, I would say your stealers are too expensive. The broodlord is great, but the adrinal glands are not that good now that they do not give you a bonus to your initative. Scything talons should never be taken unless you are trying to spend the last few points and do not have any more models. Do the math; 8 stealers have 16 attacks. If you take scything talons you will get to re-roll two, maybe three, misses. Meanwhile you have already got ten hits, two more is not that impressive.

"But Yori," I hear you all cry "More hits means more chances to wound!" True, but let us look at that. If you assume it is a straight up 4+ to wound you would get 5 wounds normally and 6 with the talons. I am not impressed with that. Now if you look at toxin sacs you will see that re-roll to wound gives you 7 or 8 wounds with those same 5 hits, plus a second chance to rend. That is impressive.

Thanks for the advice everyone. Maybe I should've added the point cost after all, since the Talon's in the gene stealers brood only was for the Broodlord.

I agree that I maybe should remove the small Genestealer brood since it seems like it might end up being nuked from orbit when it's in such a small number, while Hormag's might do better both antiarmor and normal cc wise.

The reason why I ask so many half retarded questions about my army list is partly due to me being new to 40 k and partly due to me being a poor student and therefore can't afford too many miscalculated purchases.

Any way. Really appreciate your guys' advice and looking forward to hitting my FLGS tomorrow for my first GW purchase in years.

Will rapport in some pictures and battle rapports after my first painting session and battles

[munchies]

Aug 6, 2012 19:46:17 GMT @60mm said:

If you aren't going to trade his psyker powers in drop Regen, use Leech Essence and spend the 20 elsewhere.

Hmm. You bring a fair point. I think I will keep the regen on my Flyrant tho'. I really hate to see my personal little HQ snowflake dying and as far as I can see (without knowing too much of the meta) that it's rather hard to nuke a a flyrant down in one hit/ round and I therefore hope that the flyrant would've an easier time regaining wounds with the regen buff. Please correct me if I'm totally wrong on this one.

Thanks for the advice

[maskedtyranid]

Aug 6, 2012 12:27:08 GMT yoritomo said:

As for actual advice, I would say your stealers are too expensive. The broodlord is great, but the adrinal glands are not that good now that they do not give you a bonus to your initative. Scything talons should never be taken unless you are trying to spend the last few points and do not have any more models. Do the math; 8 stealers have 16 attacks. If you take scything talons you will get to re-roll two, maybe three, misses. Meanwhile you have already got ten hits, two more is not that impressive.

Adrenal glands are still worth considering. Granted, hopefully they'll get a points cost decrease in the next codex (which I guess would require someone other than Cruddance to write it and maybe someone who actually puts thought into this sort of thing). However, if you have your Genestealers charge something like a Rhino with a rear armor value of 10, you'll improve your odds of damaging it, and that could be just enough to strip away all its Hull Points. I'm not entirely sure scything talons are a bad option, either. Sure, the math says it's probably better just to take more Genestealers. But in my experience, statistics can't be relied on and it's always best to have insurance against Murphy's Law. You'll be kicking yourself if you roll something like eight ones that you could've rerolled if you only had Scything Talons. At the very least, it's a bargain to leave them on the Broodlord. That's a guy who you can't afford to have missing.

[wisdomseyes1]

For genestealers, I don't think it's the bonus initiative that matters... It's the bonus strength. If they have TS, adrenal glands cuts on your rending which is the only thing that makes them good: high volumes of attacks that hit first and are rending. If you have less rerolls, you have less chances to get 6's

If you don't have TS, then why are you taking AG over TS? It helps against rear av11 and that is all I can think of. The 4+ with rerolls hits more often than 3+ AND gets more likely rends.

Similar arguments can be made for the broodlord.

Adrenal glands are just not worth it on genestealers an they never have been. Too many points, very little reward.