Mindshackle scarabs, do i have this right?

[chairmanwoo]

So I'm guessing most of us are familiar now with the fun that can be had watching your carnifex/trygon/tyrant/whatever beat itself half to death instead of hitting the undead metal swine you were attacking.

They never worried me too much before (tho they are still very very rude for so few pts) as you could just avoid being in b2b with the guy or feed him a pleb or two if you had them to hand but challenges in 6th have changed things a bit.

I'm trying to formulate my strategies for dealing with them but I wanted some 2nd oppinions on wether I have the mechanics of this correct because I suspect its going to be a bone of contention vs many necron players.

Mindshacklers go off "at the beginning of the fight sub-phase" according to necron FAQ.

Challenges are declared at the beginning of the fight sub-phase (BRB)

P9. Of the BRB says when actions occur simultaneously the player who's turn it is chooses the order.

Given all that am I safe to argue that provided its my turn I can force the scarabs to go off before making/accepting challenges? I.e. make sure the trygon or whatever isn't in b2b with the lord when he charges (but near to try and get him with spill over if he doesn't challenge maybe), make the scrabs go off with nothing in b2b & then munch him in challenge (tho the goit will probably just get back up!)

Won't work on their turn but I can't see a reason why it wouldn't work like that (dosent mean there isn't one mind ).

Did I miss something?

[Deleted]

Sounds right to me, but Trygons can't make challenges.

[coredump]

Your summary is correct.

Further, challenges can only be accepted or issued by characters engaged in the fight. So if the MSS Lord is more than 2" away from a friendly model in base... it can't challenge anyway.

Similarly, if you keep your (high Init) character more than 2" away from a friendly model in base, then it can't be challenged, but will still get to Pile In and get its attacks.

[chairmanwoo]

Derp! *Facepalm* what a tard I am!

Yeh terrible example, please disregard all mentions of trygons or indeed anything else that can't be subject to a challenge!

Still it does affect tervigons and tyrants which are premiere units for us right now (they are to me anyway). damned brain-scarabs are horrible enough as it is without being unavoidable!

Drowning em in gants first seems like a solid move atleast (is there anything that can't be solved with termagants? ), but its no good wading in with the tyrant or tervifex for the sneaky gimboid to challenge his way into b2b and make it kick itself in the head instead of striking!

[killme304]

Jul 29, 2012 3:12:47 GMT chairmanwoo said:

(is there anything that can't be solved with termagants? )

Landraiders would like a word with you.

Every character we can take is Ld10. You have a 50% chance to ignore them. It sucks when your tervifex kicks its own ass, but if you don't you are going to make that Overlord/Lord your (please do not swear).

[chairmanwoo]

Jul 29, 2012 3:29:27 GMT killme304 said:

Landraiders would like a word with you.

I actually had an image of gants futilely thrashing around underneath a flyer when I wrote that

Every character we can take is Ld10. You have a 50% chance to ignore them. It sucks when your tervifex kicks its own ass, but if you don't you are going to make that Overlord/Lord your (please do not swear).

50-50 always struck me as unacceptable odds given that it stops you attacking also! Combined with some decent hits back from a warsythe ontop of your self inflicted wounds (assuming you don't just bonesword urself to death) and that can very easily leave the tyrant or tervigon dead after a single round doing no damage in return.

The enemy can afford to loose a random lord or overlord vs a MC that would have torn the entire unit a new one anyway. Loosing a 200 or so pt powerhouse of our own to something that can easily be half the cost or less however is a very bitter pill to swallow and could easily loose you the game all by itself! I would only voluntarily get in a scrap with MSS if it was either A. an act of desparation, B. I have a surpluss of gants etc. to throw in there 1st to tie him up or C. I can confidently munch enough or all of the unit on the charge alone whilst avoiding getting challenged to make being MSS'd next round an acceptable risk.

Tyrants with brain-worm devs could have a decent stab at dropping prescision shots onto the lord 1st i suppose (especially if its a 1 wound basic lord).

Heres one, if you have tyrant guard can you just shunt the tyrants MSS wounds onto them? Or would that be necron (controlling) players choice? Seems a little unclear at first glance and I have no rules to hand right now...

[questioner]

Actually, it is just over 50% chance of failing. Average roll on 3D6 is 10.5...

I love Mindshackle Scarabs!

[WestRider]

Jul 29, 2012 15:28:57 GMT chairmanwoo said:

Heres one, if you have tyrant guard can you just shunt the tyrants MSS wounds onto them? Or would that be necron (controlling) players choice? Seems a little unclear at first glance and I have no rules to hand right now...

The Mind Shackle Scarabs say he Attacks his own Unit. The FAQ only mentions hitting himself if it's a Unit of one Model. So based on that and the Assault WA Rules, I think you actually have to Allocate to the Guard until they're all dead and the Tyrant is a single Model, at which point he starts punching himself.

I'm not entirely sure on that, tho.

[coredump]

Heh.. interesting... Assuming he attacks his unit, which is the closest model? Seems like the Swarmlord is the 'closest' model to the Swarmlord.

But I doubt that is the intention of the rule.

[N.I.B.]

I've stopped using Boneswords on Tyrant Guards, thanks to Mindshackles. I hate that broken, undercosted piece of (please do not swear) so much. In one game I killed two surf lords with a couple of Tervifexes. Both popped back up with RP, embarked on their surf boards, sweeped and charged my Tervigons again - two dead Tervifexes. I learned to never kill the surf lords with single models (single models can't reliably block RP), go after the CCB's instead, as they don't have a 33% chance to rise again.