6th Edition New Army

[spud81]

Hi all,

Need some advice, not used the new edition rules yet and think i'm in for a bit of a shock. I usually play orks or nids.

Got a few questions before i post an army list:

First off to we get shot to pieces with the overwatch rule? the games i usually play i am the aggressor and always charge first. (Usually play marines, tau or dark eldar)

Secondly does anyone bother with a/glands anymore? Now furious charge is only +1 strength?

And lastly does the hammer of wrath (the I10 basic strength hit not sure on the name) actually do any good apart from monsterous creatures?

I'll post a quick army list up in another thread if anyone would be kind enough to comment.

Thanks all.

[wisdomseyes1]

Over watch isn't something that destroys us. Just think, every 6 shots is a hit, which even with a 10 man tact with all rapid fire bolters, is only about 3 hits (and I can't think of a marines unit that actually has 20 shots.

It seldom kills enough to be that big an issue, but it is a better chance the defenders had than before without over watch. It MIGHT stop you from getting the charge, because you will lose an inch or 2 from the shots. Your mc with 1 wound might die. But chances are not in the favor of the over watcher. Still, they replaced most "can not shoot" with "snapfire" which with enough dice is going to get some unexpected results.

Gants will still use adrenal glands because they need it for vehicles. Trygons won't usually, smash supersedes the extra strength. Fexen sometimes do, because then they have no need to smash.

Jump infantry get it, which in a way makes for an extra attack on the charge for them. Assault marines with 2cc weapons and packs get 1 + cc weapons + charge + hammer of wrath... Quite effective. The hammer on mc's is where I ck sided it kind of a joke, but just like snapfire, it's a game of dice, and that makes luck a giant factor, overall.

[squash]

As wisdom said overwatch isn't a problem for killing models, but it IS a problem in that it kills models in the FRONT of your unit. That reduces your charge distance and 2-3 models could make the difference of whether you get into close combat or not. The solution is to keep a character in the front of the unit, and use 'look out sir!' to allocate wounds to the back.

As well as vehicles, adrenal glands are important because they snergize with toxin sacs. Against Orks, Necrons and Marines toxin sacs give you a 4+ to wound. With toxin sacs and adrenal glands that's a 4+ rerollable, giving you a 75% chance to wound.Reasonable logic with termagants and hormagaunts is not to take one of those upgrades without the other, and with the new poison rules that may become sound logic with genestealers as well. It's worth pointing out that Adrenal Glands give genestealers a slightly lower chance of rending, making them less killy against heavy armour.

I've never been able to use hammer of wrath with my gargoyles, but it's certainly useful for my monstrous creatures yeah.

Edit: Out of curiosity, I ran some numbers. This is a single genestealer attack against a 2+ armour save with a 5+ invulnerable save. One attack is at strength 4, the other is at strength 5 (adrenal glands). Both attacks have toxin sacs.

Strength 4: 16.17% chance of an unsaved wound (much higher than i expected)!

Strength 5: 16.68% chance of an unsaved wound.

So, really no difference, adrenal glands on genestealers are superfluous against heavy armour, but obviously improve in quality against high toughness or low armor enemies.

[wisdomseyes1]

While you are right that adrenal glands and toxin sacs work well together, remember that they also cost points. Hormagaunts especially with 2 points each per upgrade means that while on the charge you are more effective than before (and ONLY on the charge) but you also double their cost. Something to consider, really.

Also, on the charge with TS and AG with genestealers, it should come out to a far greater chance to rend because if the rerolls to wound. Similarly, though, it costs points which lowers the number of bodies (and total wounds/attacks) greatly for what you are getting. You don't want to make your guys TOO powerful, they still have a sub par save and now cover is primarily 5+ with enemies able to "focus fire" to ignore most of it if you don't have enough. It's quite.. Painful

[squash]

Jul 25, 2012 3:48:14 GMT wisdomseyes1 said:

Also, on the charge with TS and AG with genestealers, it should come out to a far greater chance to rend because if the rerolls to wound.

No actually adrenal glands lower the the chance to rend, not increase it.

[wisdomseyes1]

Jul 25, 2012 4:13:22 GMT squash said:

Jul 25, 2012 3:48:14 GMT wisdomseyes1 said:

Also, on the charge with TS and AG with genestealers, it should come out to a far greater chance to rend because if the rerolls to wound.

No actually adrenal glands lower the the chance to rend, not increase it.

Adrenal glands alone? Maybe. The reroll fails should increase the number of 6's.

Don't tell me when I asked if rending was the same and the GW store owner told us yes he was wrong. :/ I never bothered to look at the rending rules because of that...

And I just gave the rulebook back today.

[squash]

No, I'm saying a genestealer with toxin sacs has a better chance of rending than a genestealer with toxin sacs and adrenal glands.

[wisdomseyes1]

Jul 25, 2012 4:54:31 GMT squash said:

No, I'm saying a genestealer with toxin sacs has a better chance of rending than a genestealer with toxin sacs and adrenal glands.

I started responding on how I didn't understand how that worked out, then I realized with a 3+ you would be getting less dice to reroll. Your right. I was getting it backwards.