1750 vs chaos demons

[hellhammer]

Long time reader first time poster, greetings

I'm going gainst a demon opponent who plays a FMC heavy list with 2xbloodthirster
2xdemonprince
and lots of nurgle fillers,1x tzeentch firedemons and 1xslaanesh demonettes

the list is potent and I'm not so sure if my droppod list is such a good idea against demons (half of them also arrive as reserve as some of you may know)

here's my list:

*************** 1 HQ ***************
Hivetyrant, LW+BS, TL Devourer, Old Adversary, HiveCommander, Wings
- - - > 295 Punkte

*************** 2 Elite ***************
2 Zoantrophen
+ mycetic spore, TL deathspitter -> 50 Pkt
- - - > 170 Punkte

2 Zoantrophen
+ mycetic spore, TL deathspitter -> 50 Pkt
- - - > 170 Punkte

*************** 2 Standard ***************
15 Termaganten, Devourer
+ mycetic spore, TL deathspitter -> 50 Pkt
- - - > 200 Punkte

14 Termaganten, Devourer
+ mycetic spore, TL deathspitter -> 50 Pkt
- - - > 190 Punkte

*************** 3 Unterstützung ***************
1 Carnifex, 2 TL Devourer
+ mycetic spore, TL deathspitter -> 50 Pkt.
- - - > 240 Punkte

1 Carnifex, 2 TL Devourer
+ mycetic spore, TL deathspitter -> 50 Pkt.
- - - > 240 Punkte

1 Carnifex, 2 TL Devourer
+ mycetic spore, TL deathspitter -> 50 Pkt.
- - - > 240 Punkte

-> : 1745 pts

I was thinking about giving the zoans Mind Shriek and using them against the flyers, rest should be quite clear

the question is should I try the pod army or rather stick to a common list

[wisdomseyes1]

"fire daemons" do you mean flamers (the tall ones with lots of mouths and the template weapon) or pink horrors (the troops choice with warp fire that look like flames that laugh at the opponent) I also don't know what fmc means.

Do you know what mark the princes might have? The most common ones are tzeentch and nurgle.

Nurgle fillers? I'm not sure what that means... Like plaguebearers? Those wouldn't be fillers, they would be one of your bigger issues.

The daemonettes are easy, shoot them with basically any gun in our army and they fall like flies. Your army seems to do very well in the shooting department where those daemonettes will be an easy kill. Your opponents army doesnt look like it is using anything of real concern to you, bloodthirster is likely the biggest issue, but you can realistically shoot them down, then your monstrous creatures only are concerned with the princes, who may be shooting or may be close combat (2+ poison non the less) based on what mark they have.

I don't have enough information on the topic, but it looks like you won't have any issues

Well, you will actually. You can't keep more than 50% of your army in reserves, but I believe the spores rules trump that. Weather it does or does not, you can't keep the tyrant in reserves. Also know that in 6th edition, if at the end of any game turn you have no models on the board, you lose. You list can destroy the opponent, but you better make sure you don't lose by copying an all reserve tactic

[Jabberwocky]

I'd maybe just swap 1 podded Fex for an outflanked Tervigon, just to bolster up your minimal troops. Would also help those devilgants be a serious threat to assaulters once you get into position.

I'd even consider walking all those Fexes so you have plenty of tough models on the field turn 1.


Wisdom, FMC is flying monstrous creatures, which usually you'll need 6s to hit with shooting.

[wisdomseyes1]

Wocky: I know what it is, I just wasnt familiar with the new acronym

And if I recall, you only need 6's if it swoops (and tzeentch wouldn't care but I see greater daemons and 2 princes without alignments, so the flying monstrous creature thing isn't worrisome really, even if they are of tzeentch.)

[hellhammer]

the nurgle fillers are 2 units of nurglings, and 2-3 5xplaguebearers
I meant tzeentchflamers (i've seen them wiping out a 6man squad of nurglebikers in the turn they arrived, really strong-best counter unit for taking those out)

marks are tzeentch afaik for the princes

flyrant is the only dude on the field for my first turn, so I really need going first
walking any of the fexes will be difficult I suppose, they may end up being out of range for too long

I just hope I can keep my flyrant alive before my army arrives or this will be a short match hehe

[wisdomseyes1]

The Flamers unit is... Well I'll assume 6 strong based on a guess.

His warlord WILL take strategic, and I suggest yours does as well because most of them are reserve related. You haven't mentioned any outposts, so you might like it a bit more.

Daemons randomness will likely be your only friend in a game of who shoots who first. With one model on the board, you better hope those Flamers miss their target or the dark gods don't favor his prefered half. Because going first, even moving the tyrant 24", 6 auto hits that ignore armor and cover where your only defense was their snapfire, added alongside a grounded test, added with the daemon princes getting a shot or 2 off... If you go second life looks bleak. If you go second I don't see your chances of winnin being even existent becaus then he starts getting models on the board

Daemons are going to deep strike anywhere they want. "getting into range" with fexen shouldnt be an issue. And if it is I'd be shocked, 6", + 18" range and if you can't hit anything of value, run.

[Jabberwocky]

Flamers can't hit swoopers as they can't be snapshot, only overwatched via wall of death.

I wouldn't worry about being out of range with the Fexes as most of his army will want to come close anyway. I'd still rather have 2-3 units on the board just in case something goes wrong like perils and some lucky 6s on his part, or if he turns you into a spawn, etc.

[hellhammer]

the flamer unit is only 3 guys
so I should really have a good chance to survive, even if going 2nd thanks to flying

whatever, the list stands and the match is today! I'll report back how it turned out

[paxmiles]

Jul 24, 2012 21:10:35 GMT Jabberwocky said:

Flamers can't hit swoopers as they can't be snapshot, only overwatched via wall of death.

Flamers have warpfire and breath on every model. Warpfire was never used under 5th because they are horribly overpriced to be using warpfire instead of breath.

Warpfire can hit flyers, as it is normal shooting (S4, low range, same thing the horrors have).
-Pax

[hellhammer]

what does it matter? if he goes first my flyrant counts as gliding, so he is on the ground and can be shot normally

[paxmiles]

Jul 25, 2012 8:34:23 GMT hellhammer said:

what does it matter? if he goes first my flyrant counts as gliding, so he is on the ground and can be shot normally

That assumes you start on the table. If you enter from reserves, you can enter in swoop mode.

Plus they only need to hit in order to cause grounding tests. Warpfire on three flamers is 9 shots, and at least 1 hit, which means at least one grounding test.

Anyway, point was to not have you come into the game thinking they can't hurt you, only to realize that they can. This sort of thing screws me in games more often than other things.
-Pax

[hellhammer]

alright
I have no choice but to start with the flyrant on the table as there is this weird rule that you instalose when there is no model on the table at the end of any turn

[hellhammer]

if it is of any interest here is a short summary of the match outcome:
mission the relic, setup diagonally 12" from the middle on either side

he had:
1xBloodthirster
1x great unclean one
2x demon princes with the St8 AP2 tzeentch shot (fatal as it turned out later)
2x 5plaguebearer
1x 7-9slanesh beasts
1x 9 nurglings
1x 7khorne riders
1x 3tzeentchflamer

i got tabled on his turn 4 but I fully expected that, this was just for learning purposes and he is much more experienced and strong player

just a quick pro and contra on my troops:
pod dakkafex -> it worked well, TL is THE keyword of the 6th edition (as long as there is no skyfire for groundunits) everything works better with TL, dangerous for flyers, meq and in overwatch

flyrant TL dev/LW+BS -> THE unit to take, he performed absolutely great, I finally lost him to the demon prince's overwatch (yeah funny... 1 shot he rolls and scores the 6, had 1 wound left) he destroyed 1 prince and nearly the 2nd hadn't he rolled the lucky 6...

pods with TL deathspitters -> very nice, some very welcome shots to increase the chance to down his flyers, worked great everytime

devilgaunts -> ok but struggle against high toughness (5+) units like most demon stuff...

zoans -> mindshriek did nothing to the demons LD, I knew this was risky but in the end I had veeeeeery bad luck with the rolls, def try them again

all in all the shooty list does some nice dmg but lacks the needed finishing power, so a 2nd flyrant will be obligatory for my next match, maybe also try trygon instead of at least 1 carni and generally try out the walker list with tervigons again, no synapse is really hard for the nids because of them losing fearless :<

the next big downside to nids is the lack of 2+ saves through the board, really pisses me off... vector strikes really hurt

[Deleted]

If you need 2+ run a Stonecrusher Fex

[wisdomseyes1]

That list is VASTLY superior to what I was informed about. In your initial reporting, the daemon player sounded like he was going to go heavy infantry with little elite. Which is, according to common tactic, the opposite of what should be going on.

Daemon notes:
Plaguebearers, no shock killing them was hard. There is a reason people are willing to take units of 5. They are the best objective holders in the game. Period (someone will say plague marines so I'll save the time and remind then how many points they are)

Tzeentch princes were not a shock to me. Close combat and shooting abilities with a 4++ save? Outstanding. Sad how much the Tzeentch upgrades cost on him. I personally stopped using wings last edition, and don't think they are worth it even with the FMC rules added. Still, it didn't look like it threatened anything but your spores really, from looking at the list. (ps: it's ap1, doesnt matter in your game but it's +2 on the VDC against vehicles)

Bloodthirster lost some mojo with furious charge and the 2d2 armor pen being gone. Still destroys in close combat, but going by memory, his 4 wounds shouldn't have been that big an issue.

Great unclean one seems... There. I assume he was the warlord? A feel no pain MC with a 4++ and more wounds than the other greater daemons makes for a great strategic warlord (which I assume he chose)

Nurgling tarpit?

Bloodcrushers. I loved them so much last edition. They list a lot of their appeal to me this... Oh fux nuggets! I just realized I can put a khorne herald on a juggernaught to use wound allocation tricks with look out sir, making an even more deadly fatecrusher. Shizzle! Anyway, before this epiphany, I was going to say "bloodcrushers list a lot this edition for me, so I stopped using them, because of the loss of WAT" which is ubtrue isn't it?

Fiends are, even with that fact, scarier than bloodcrushers to me. Less survivable? Maybe a bit. Faster and deadlier against every unit in the game? Definitely! These were and are, the pinical of daemon power!

Flamers... Kill something and die. Haven't been impressed with them before, but glancing is nicer for them now. New question: does that actually mean something?
I have tried running them as a non suicide unit, but they die before doing anything. I personally don't like them

Nid notes:
Twin linked has always been what makes devourers with brain leech worms useful! Bs3 isn't a good thing.