Tyranid models giving cover to others

[whoadirty]

With the new 25% cover rules, I am curious what models in the Tyranid army are giving cover to others. Looking at a Termagant, it seems that it gives 25% cover to every other model except the new flying Tyrant and possibly the Tervigon. I used a tape measure and the the Termagant is really close to 1/4 of the size of the Tervigon, depending on whether or not the vents on the Tervigon count.

What models are you using to call cover?

[coredump]

It will be very dependent on the placement of the actual models, and what unit is shooting at them.

[squash]

No that doesn't matter anymore, read the Intervening Models rule on page 18, percentage doesn't matter when it's another unit offering cover.

[N.I.B.]

Jul 23, 2012 6:57:12 GMT squash said:

No that doesn't matter anymore, read the Intervening Models rule on page 18, percentage doesn't matter when it's another unit offering cover.

Unless they shoot over the intervening unit, then it reffers back to the terrain cover saves. Some (like myself) interpret this to mean it still requires to be 25% obscured by the intervening unit to get a cover save.

[coredump]

Regardless of which way folks go on the 25% ruling, position will still matter, since either way they can still see over intervening units.

Further, it is as N.I.B. says, and the intervening models section refers back to the terrain section, which details that you need to be 25% obscured. the difference is the space between the intervening models count as obscurement.
(Plus, you only need to be in 25% obscurement from 1 of the shooting models.... should be pretty easy.)

[squash]

Very respectfully disagree, let me explain why;

On page 18, 'Cover Saves' is the heading, 'Determining Cover Saves' and 'Intervening Models' is the subheading.

The 'Intervening Models' section (the wording of which you're familiar with) says "as if it was behind cover", in which 'Cover Saves' says the unit is "entitled to a cover save"

And if you want confirmation on what "partially hidden" means, check the bolded paragraph on page 8.

Sorry I'm not posting the entire text, but I suspect it's against forum rules.

[coredump]

I was not able to find any pertinent bolded paragraph on p.8. Nothing there talks about things being 'partially hidden'

[Sledgehammer]

I guess, he meant "18"

[fragile]

Cite me the terrain page please Core, Im not quite finding what I think your talking about. I see the partially hidden remark on pg 18. though.

[gloomfang]

I take over interving units to mean that while the unit is between the shooter and the target the LoS is not blocked. Flyers or being on Fortifications for example.

As for screening units I find that Hormaguants are taller and screen MCs better. Of course some people can complain that my old school screamer killers are a bit short, but they are almost as tall as my Swarmlord. My 2nd ed tyrant though is sitting out until I can redo him as a prime. Might just get some 2nd ed Carnifaxes for that instead.

[coredump]

Intervening models:
If a target is partially hidden from the firer's view by models from a third unit, it receives a 5+cover save in the same way as if it was behind terrain.

I believe the key phrase is "in the same way as if it was behind terrain"

Which means we need to find out in what "way" do you get cover from being behind terrain.

"If, when you come to allocate a Wound, the target model's body is at least 25% obscured from the point of view of at least one firer, Wounds allocated to that model receive a cover save"

That is the way that terrain provides a cover save..... so it is the way that intervening models provide
a cover save.


Some folks are distracted by the "partially hidden" part of the rule, but the basic cover rules also start that way: "Often, you'll find enemy models are partially hidden or obscured by terrain, also known as being in cover." But then go on to define that you need 25% to qualify for a cover save.

But again, that is only from 1 of the firing models.

[gloomfang]

Jul 23, 2012 17:44:40 GMT coredump said:

Intervening models:
If a target is partially hidden from the firer's view by models from a third unit, it receives a 5+cover save in the same way as if it was behind terrain.

I believe the key phrase is "in the same way as if it was behind terrain"

Which means we need to find out in what "way" do you get cover from being behind terrain.

"If, when you come to allocate a Wound, the target model's body is at least 25% obscured from the point of view of at least one firer, Wounds allocated to that model receive a cover save"

That is the way that terrain provides a cover save..... so it is the way that intervening models provide
a cover save.


Some folks are distracted by the "partially hidden" part of the rule, but the basic cover rules also start that way: "Often, you'll find enemy models are partially hidden or obscured by terrain, also known as being in cover." But then go on to define that you need 25% to qualify for a cover save.

But again, that is only from 1 of the firing models.

I thought that the Focus Fire rules cleared this up? If part of the unit is in cover (25% obscured) and part of it is out of cover you have to choose if you want to shoot the exposed ones or the entire unit.

So its by model to see if they are in cover or not. Then the unit shooting has to decide if they want to focus fire or not. Not sure if the LOS to determine who has cover or not is from the closest shooter. I don't have my book right in front of me.

[guns]

GW's cover rules tend to always let me down by not being as clear as they could be.

Like is it 25% (and was it 50% last edition) of the model's height, or the model's 2D profile that must be covered?

[fragile]

Well I guess part of the problem there is that it doesnt clarify terrain at all. The forest rules for one, state that if LOS is drawn across them it counts regardless of 25% or not. And LOS through units has always been simply a cover save "due to units moving around" and all that fluff.

gloomfang. Imagine a line of Termagants in front of a line of warriors. Your Terminators can see over the bodies of the Termagants but their heads block the feet of the warriors. Focus Fire wouldnt help this because they all possibly have cover. But is covering their feet enough for the cover save? Its not 25%, but definitely "partially hidden"

[coredump]

If you are 25% obscured from *1* shooting model, you get a cover save. (any 1 of the shooting models)


Focus fire is a different mechanic, but yes, it lets you target only the models with a worse cover save (or non at all)