Thoughts about Overwatch...

[rpricew]

Played a couple of games this weekend and several things happened.

When playing Necrons, I tried to assault 5 shooty Raveners into a unit of Immortals (15 I think with Tesla) and a Cryptek with Veil of Darkness. What I didn't realize was the Cryptek had a Str 8 AP1 Template weapon. So when I declared my 7" charge, he, and the rest of the Immortals) went on Overwatch and politely wiped the Raveners right off the board. Same thing against Grey Knight Storm Bolters and Tau Pulse Rifles. What I picked up from this, that I later used in my next game, after going back and re-reading the book:

Units can only Overwatch once... so in my next game against Blood Angels, I used spawned Termagant broods to declare 10-12" charges (since they are usually a little slower than the Raveners or whatever else you're trying to protect from those Melta/Flamethrower/Tesla shooting units) and when my opponent Overwatches them, my Raveners or Trygon or Genestealers gets to make their charge unmolested.

After a couple of times doing this, my opponent started to catch on, but it was too late at that point. I tend to run my Tervigons loaded out for close combat and run them every round that they aren't in assault range, so spawning a unit of Termagants 6", letting them move 6" and then declaring that charge (especially if you get a good spawn roll - I got 15, 12 & 11 tonight) makes them think twice about who they should shoot.

Before I started this, Overwatch was a game changer against the gunline lists that I have been facing in 6th edition (Necrons, Tau, Grey Knights & Blood Angels)

[wisdomseyes1]

Templates are D3 hits in over watch IIRC, not the actual template.

Over watch is mean, and really make the game more gun centric by punishing further the assault phase. That said, it was needed. "you can only shoot on your turn" is not realistic in any way, and you see guys charging t you, in a shooting army like yay or crons, you would rather try to shoot them while getting ready for the assault. You don't just site idly by and stare as your enemy charges toward you.

[rpricew]

Jul 23, 2012 4:08:32 GMT wisdomseyes1 said:

Templates are D3 hits in over watch IIRC, not the actual template.

He rolled a six for his D3 roll with the Cryptek, killing 3 Raveners, then the 15 Immortals finished up the remaining 2 with six (6s) for a whopping 18 hits thanks to Tesla special rule... OUCH!

[zephoid]

the S8 AP1 template wounds based on LD, not on Toughness and was erattad to ID based on 8 vs LD not 8 vs T. Therefore, it could only ID a LD4 model (grotesques).

[rpricew]

Jul 23, 2012 4:22:49 GMT zephoid said:

the S8 AP1 template wounds based on LD, not on Toughness and was erattad to ID based on 8 vs LD not 8 vs T. Therefore, it could only ID a LD4 model (grotesques).

Oh snap... I guess we played that wrong! Thanks for the Clarification... I appreciate it.

[coredump]

But yes, charging with fodder is one way to get around that. Which is one of the reasons I will actually use a tervigon now...

But be careful, he doesn't have to Overwatch the first unit. So if charging from 11" away, he can just let it go, and Overwatch the second unit.

Also, you can use really tough units that can absorb a lot more fire without taking a wound. Against a TMC, even that amazing roll of 18 tesla hits, causes 2 wounds. (Possibly less if biomancy is involved)


OTOH, if you do have a decent size gaunt brood, you can arrange to charge 2 enemy units. If they Overwatch, cool. If they don't and you get into base contact, they can't overwatch anyway. Lets you neutralize two units with one brood.

(It also makes all 5 units part of the same combat, which could be useful.

Oh, last bit of gaunt love. Use the gaunts to get into base with the dangerous models; that will keep your elite unit safer.

[Illithid]

^ Where does it state this Coredump? I am not doubting that your right, but from what I have read of the phase, it seems that the first unit would essential then lock the enemy in combat.

My circle of gamers so far have played it as "you can overwatch once, and at the first unit firing at you". We can not find a rule that contradicts this.

[maugrim]

You can only Overwatch once per turn - and once you are locked in combat may not Overwatch.

The question would be - when are you "Locked"? Is it once you have proceeded to the Fight Sub-Phase, or before?

[kurbutti]

maugrim, p.23: "Units that have one or more models in base contact with enemies are locked in combat." I suppose they are considered "locked" right after the first charger has successfully reached someone. That would suggest it becomes relevant during Charge Sub-Phase, right before moving to Fight Sub-Phase.

[N.I.B.]

As I understand it, the first unit to reach the enemy will lock them in combat and keep them from any more Overwatch reactions, which is nice.

[zephoid]

You have to declare all charges before moving any models. Between declarations is when you can overwatch. Because no models are moved until the last charge is declared, they are not locked.

You simply have to declare charges 1 at a time. The opponent must immediately respond after your declaration if he wants to fire at that unit. You may then proceed to the next charge after his overwatch.

[doomarn]

1. Declare charge
2. Resolve Overwatch
3. Roll charge range
4. Charge move
5. DECLARE next charge
......
cant be easier than that. is in the summary on p20

Opponent can of course gamble that you will not reach him with the first charging unit and declare not to Overwatch, If you fail to reach him then he can Overwatch on the second unit that wants to charge.

[coredump]

I assume you are asking about:
"But be careful, he doesn't have to Overwatch the first unit. So if charging from 11" away, he can just let it go, and Overwatch the second unit."

Let me elaborate. If you charge from far away, (10-12") your opponent may decide to not use his Overwatch, and take the chance you will not make that charge.
If the gaunts roll 9" or less, then they can't charge, and that unit is free to Overwatch the next unit that charges.
Correct, if the gaunts *do*make it, that unit is tied in CC and will not be able to Overwatch that turn.

Does that make more sense? (Or were you referring to a different secion of my post.)

Jul 23, 2012 13:49:45 GMT zephoid said:

You have to declare all charges before moving any models. Between declarations is when you can overwatch. Because no models are moved until the last charge is declared, they are not locked.

This is not accurate. It is handled one at a time. You declare a charge from one unit, then they can Overwatch, then you roll dice and Charge.

Then you move on to your next unit. You do not declare the second charge untll you have moved the first. (or failed to move)



edit: I am watching my son... so got multiple ninja'd.

[kurbutti]

Too slow...

What? Where do you get this from?

On p.20 there's a summary of charge sub-phase. It says clearly that you declare the charge, resolve overwatch, roll the charge distance and make the charge move. THEN you delcare next charge.

[Illithid]

Jul 23, 2012 14:06:13 GMT doomarn said:

1. Declare charge
2. Resolve Overwatch
3. Roll charge range
4. Charge move
5. DECLARE next charge
......
cant be easier than that. is in the summary on p20

Opponent can of course gamble that you will not reach him with the first charging unit and declare not to Overwatch, If you fail to reach him then he can Overwatch on the second unit that wants to charge.

that was my thoughts, thanks for clarifying.