Shooty Nids for 6th

[drummerboy]

I've been an occasional reader of the Hive for a while, but with the release of 6th and my recent move to an area that will allow me to start playing 40k again I have decided to become a member.

Now that the introduction is out of the way I would like your help in coming up with lists that have good synergy and are based around nid shooting. I have pretty much skipped 5e (only played in a few tournaments that were worth the drive), but I played in 4th back when dakkafexes could walk everything off the table.

I have been doing some reading and it seems like the new rules have really made old nid shooting lists viable again (mostly due to vehicle damage rules). I did some playing around and came up with a list like this:

Dakka Flyrant - OA, x2 Dev, Wings 285pts
Prime - Deathspitter 85pts

3x Hive Guard 150
2x Hive Guard 100
Doom w/pod (pod with BS) 145

x2 Gaunts (10) 100
x2 Tervigons - AG,TS, Onslaught, Catalyst 420

x2 Dakkafexes - x2 Devourers 380
Trygon Prime - TS, AG 260

This brings my total to 1925 and I was looking for a good 2k pt list to build. I am looking to buy a few models to make this (flyrant and tervigons) and wanted to get feedback and discuss options as far as what to do with the left over points and what I might be able to trade out to make the list better before I make any purchases. If I were to drop another Hive Guard I could add in some biovores for a little extra fire support.

My plan with this list is to walk everything across the board together. The prime will obviously run with the fexxes and they will hopefully be able to wear out one target per turn. The Flyrant will use vector strikes and the devourers to handle things like lootas, longfangs, and other stuff that can't be taken out with only a 24" range per turn. The doom is just used as a distraction. To be honest I've never used him, but I feel like he would be a great way to direct fire away from my blob (not that it can't handle it) and the flyrant. Also there are a few psychic abilities that make him nearly autowin against horde armies (iron arm for one). The trygon prime is around to help keep more hth based units in check. He will walk across the board help take fire and counter assault anything going after the shooty stuff. Maybe the Trygon isn't needed and I could add another Tervi or a T-fex?

[killme304]

Drop AG on the trygon, +1 str won't actually make it do anything it wasn't already going to do (wound most things on 2+), and smashing will give you s10 + rerolls vs vehicles already. If you think your flyrant will be near your trygon, you can also drop TS because OA will reroll the 1s for you anyway. I assume you have the Trygon go prime for more synapse, and with only 3 sources in a list full of lurk, thats not a bad thing. Just don't do it if the only reason is for the better shooting. I *highly* recommend you upgrade your gaunts to devilgaunts, and add more of them. Yes, they are expensive glass cannons, but your flyrant, tervigons, and fexen should be drawing most of the fire, leaving them relatively unharmed, until they wipe out a squad of terminators that is.

[drummerboy]

So I was thinking of upgrading to devourer gaunts (same as devilgaunts?) and putting them in a pod and dropping them near the Flyrant so that I have a good sized strikeforce in their lines early in the game.

As far as the Trygon Prime goes, you are correct about the synapes. I just wanted something with high survivability that posed more of a hth threat as stated earlier. I can work in the swarmlord if that would be better than the trygon prime, but I would have to sacrifice the prime for the HQ slot and I really like BS4 dakkafexes.

So taking killme304's advice (which I agree with) this is what I've come up with...

Dakka Flyrant - OA, x2 Dev, Wings 285pts
Prime - Deathspitter 85pts

3x Hive Guard 150
Doom w/pod (with BS) 145

Devilgaunts (18) - Spore w/BS 235
Gaunts (10) 50
x2 Tervigons - AG,TS, Onslaught, Catalyst 420

x2 Dakkafexes - x2 Devourers 380
Trygon Prime - TS, 250

This would bring me to 2000 even. Although it cost me a couple hive guard I think it will be a good addition and help to put armies on high alert which will if nothing else will help suck fire away from the MC's walking up the board. I'm still not sure about the Trygon Prime, but I don't know what else to put in that can do the job better (cc fear that is...) I'd like to stick to MC's if I can just for target saturation...any thoughts?

[coredump]

Things to consider:
Regen on Prime, it is cheap
Zoans are very versatile with psy choices, maybe swap 2 HG for 2 zoan
Drop Prime from Trygon. If Trygon can Rage, that adds an attack on the charge
Giving Tervi CCLaws, using Smash Attack and rolling on Biomancy makes them into Main characters, and not just supporting ones.
Drop AG from Trygon.

Vector Strikes are almost never better than just more Devourer shots.

[drummerboy]

coredump, thanks for your advice. I'm pretty much a newb compared to a lot of the people on here, with that being said I have a couple questions:

1) Would the zoan's be better than the hive guard? I don't mind replacing them, but I'm having a hard time keeping both (and one HG seems silly). Though zoan's would help out with the synapse issue.

2) I can see your point with the crushing claws on the tervigons, if I do this they seem to turn more into specialist units with a hard cc punch...with that said is the Trygon worth it? All I added the Trygon prime for was synapse (which has been suggested that I remove) redundancy and a cc threat. This would free up more points for more shooty stuff, but it also loses me 6 T6 wounds that could be very valuable.

If I get rid of the trygon all together I can add: regen, crushing claws, have 3 hive guard, 3 zoanthropes, as well as flush out my devilgaunts to 19 (lol)...Thoughts?

[bigpig]

Regarding the Zoans, their utility as compared to HG has increased in 6th. HG aren't as much a necessity (though I tend to believe they still have a lot of value for their points) and Zoans now can swap out their powers based on opponent, are harder to shut down due to changes in hoods, and they still provide synapse.

1HG isn't silly at all. It gives you the ability to split fire and still have a solid and accurate Str8 threat out there.

The other thing I would change is to remove the strangler from you pod. Replace it with the TL Deathspitter. Since you must shoot the nearest target that often means shooting something very close to all your termagaunts. There is nothing worse than having that template drift back on top of them.

[drummerboy]

I see, I will have to playtest the zoane's I guess. I guess theme-wise the doom isn't great for this list, but he can be such a good distraction unit and in some games he is near unstoppable.

I hadn't even thought of the barbed strangler scattering on my gaunts...that would be a big bummer. I guess it also saves a few points as well though. I will consider everything further and maybe come up with something else to post. I just got the rule book and I need to read up on the psychers a little more as I don't know as much about them as I would like.

I really appreciate all of the replies and if anyone else has suggestions I'd really appreciate it. I'm trying to spend strategically as I'm running on a small (relatively) 40k budget...all of your advice is being considered.

[coredump]

Currently you have 5 HG in your list, I was suggesting you keep some and replace some. Exact numbers depending on how many points you have left over once tweaking the list. But lets say min of 2 zoan and 2 HG, and a max of 3 of each.

As mentioned, zoans let you swap out 2 psychic powers each, and that happens right before deployment. So if you see land raiders and bastions, you can keep Warp Lance.
If you see lots of infantry, maybe go with Psychic Shriek.
Flyers or Necrons, maybe OM (Don't rmember the entire name...)
Or you can try for a mix of stuff to see what turns out to be helpful. Plus, the give synapse.


Personally, I think I would take a Tervifex over a Trygon. But I can't say it is 'better'. Trygons have some advantages, and Tervigon has some advantages. If you want to play with a Trygon, that is cool. They are a good unit.

To me the Tervifex is the best Tervigon build.
Tervigon with Scy Talons, CCLaws, TS, and 1 purchases power.
Then you always use Smash Attack so you are attacking at S10. (This gives you 3+D3 attacks on the charge, hit on 4+ reroll 1's, wound on 2+ reroll 1's. and causes ID against most models)
You also get two rolls on the Biomancy chart.

As an option, you can also take AG, but mostly for nearby gaunts, the terv won't really use it or need it. And you can always take another psy power so you get 3 rolls on biomancy.

[N.I.B.]

Sadly you can't have both ScyTals and CClaws on a Tervigon.

[Jabberwocky]

Something no one else seemed to catch: the tyranid prime does not give Fexes BS4, he can only do that for warriors.

[drummerboy]

@ Jabberwocky: damn you are correct. Thanks for catching that before I used him that way...man that really is a bummer.

@ coredump: I have given the zoan's another read and I really like them and I agree that their versatility makes them pretty sweet. As far as the tervigon's go, I really like them as well, but I was really wanting to try and crank out something psychic/shooty. The tervigons are just the only unit worth taking in a shooty list imo since they can give you lots of termagants to use as a screen and hold objectives. I will definitely keep your input in mind for my more competitive games...How many tervigons would you run at 2k? Just curious of course.

Thanks for all the help so far.

[killme304]

In 2k+ I try to field 2 troops tervigons, but it all depends on what you want from your list really. It wont add much in the shooting department, but you can make all kinds of screens with the spawned gaunts and hold some objectives easier.

[coredump]

Jul 21, 2012 7:37:11 GMT N.I.B. said:

Sadly you can't have both ScyTals and CClaws on a Tervigon.

Dang it. I would have swore you could... thanks for the correction.

Jul 21, 2012 12:56:05 GMT Jabberwocky said:

Something no one else seemed to catch: the tyranid prime does not give Fexes BS4, he can only do that for warriors.

If someone has said you can, I must have missed it. The fexes do okay with the reroll... the purpose of the Prime is to play wound allocation games, and to regen a couple of wounds for the unit.


Drummerboy: The Tervifex still spawns gaunts, and still has a shooting attack. The only real change is it becomes a beast in CC, and you lose the ability to cast Feel no Pain.