hello friends

[wisdomseyes1]

long time since I have posted anything, I know. I bet you all missed me. my computer monitor is broken and i have to get it replaced, alongside busy with college and work and drama. Just using my brothers lap top while he is on vacation for the next week.

but you dont care about that!!!

Okay so here is the deal:

Normally, in 5th, my friend group and I played 1250. well with the new ally rules that have been added, they decided that there are enough models going around in our group to play 1750. AND, tyranids dont ally with anyoone (and for some strange reason necrons and Bloodangels aare not battlebrothers) so I am going to need help making my lists once again.

when I learned outflank was destroyed (poor genestealers cant assault that turn) and fleet was changed (AND nothing in the FAQ for hormagaunts bounding leap) i felt that an assault based tyranid army got even less viable in this edition. Am I correct in this assumption or am I missing something?

I hve played 3 games in 6th edition using lists I would have never used in 5th due to their lack of consistency. Most recently I played against Tau with a hormagaunt/ genestealer list with a flyrant commander and hive + deathleaper. andd 2 trygons. a few hundred shots later, him going first, i lost. of course I didnt know new reserve rolls, didnt know outflank became (please do not swear), didnt realize how slow horagaunts had become. I feel justified in that loss.

The Tervigan also looks like it got a big hit with the new "deny the witch" and Feel no pain rules. Is is, however, still worth taking for objectives after army lists have switched to what I imagine to be more heavy bolters?

Flyrant, flying monsterous creature worth the cost now? also, prefered enemy looks a bit weaker than before, still worth giving to the flyrant for the buff?

OH, I havent read avidly, but this is something I would like to know. Death/fex star units. does the cover still work or not, and if so which page is this located

Tyrant guard, assuming it doesnt work, are good for look out sir. My friend was telling me something about thunderwolf cavalry and cheesy look out sir wound allocation. this is true for the tyrant as well?


Ill have more, but for now thats it. thanks everyone for answers, until later I shall be lurking.

<3

[gloomfang]

Ok a few answers.
1) Assault is good again as there are no more fearless wounds.
2) Tervigon got a huge boost. For one blessings (like catalyst) can not be stoped by hoods or Deny the Witch). It also can use the new psykers powers. They also have Smash so they can be S10 at the cost of 1 attack with a re-roll on all Pen rolls. (All MCs have Smash and Hammer of Wrath).
3) FNP is now 5+, but the only thing that ignores it is ID. No more AP1 or AP2 to ignore.
4) Prefered Enemy is much much better now as it also works for shooting.
5) Cover is now generally 5+ now, but you only need 25% coverage on MCs so it is easier to get. Gunts can screen Fex's now.
6)Tyrant Guard can now only take the hit for the Tyrant on a +2. However shooting now its the closest model, so if they are out front they will always take the hit. And yes the cheese works for us as well, tyrant out front and switching the gaurd that rolls the look out sir.

Note: Wave attacks are suggested now. Send in a unit to take the Overwatch and WoD before sending in an expensive or fragile unit.

[wisdomseyes1]

1) gene stealers and gaunts got so much slower though. That isn't a problem?
2) smash does seem like it would work well on tervigans missed the part about blessings ignoring deny the witch
3) I guess that is a win and loss in a way, but with cover as well I guess that is better. S6 will annoy me, but oh well
4) prefered enemy is reroll ones now though, so I was skeptible since many units already do or have twin linked
5) I knew about mc cover, but I also saw that ruins and other area terrain like it are still 4+ (my friend pulled the book out and showed me when I said cover is generally 5+) so for the most part, because I have lots of ruins in my group and in my lgs, it's not going to be difficult to get 4+
6) I do know most of the rules I did read the rulebook (well mostly read) twice.

Note: so, give up victory points with like a 10 man giant unit, then charge with a tyrant rather than charging with the tyrant (or gargoyles for flyrant)?

[gloomfang]

OK Lets answer back in Bullet points again.

1) Not being able to assualt after running with Fleet hurts. It is slower by a few inches at best on average. Move 6, Run D6, charge 6 in 5th so 12"+D6" vs. Move 6" and charge 2D6 (with rerolls for Fleet). So taking average rolls and the charts people have made it was an average of 15" in 5th and average of 13-14" for 6th. Nothing to cry about. Thing that hurts is you can fail a charge now.

2) Look at the threads for Tervifexs. Smash+Crushing Claws+TS. S10 2+D3 attacks AP2 reroll all pens and failed to wound. One the charge add in 1 S6 autohit from HoW and +1 attack.

3)It is what it is. Enfeeble is your friend now.

4) Teranofex, devigaunts, warriors, Zoans, Hiveguard all get to reroll 1s. Stacks well when shooting at flyers.

5) Your friend showed you wrong. Area terrain is 5+. The walls of ruins are 4+ is 25% obscured. If they are on the base, but wall is not in the way it is a 5+. There are other wierd terrain things that do better then 5+, but they are the exception.

6) I am on my 14th read through and I debate on 4 forums and I still get rules wrong. There is just so much new stuff. and Half of it isn'r specified.

Note: Only 1 out of 6 missions has VP for kill points now and if they kill your Warlord in ANY mission they get an extra VP.

[wisdomseyes1]

1) the issue is that now everything can charge a max 18" and hormagaunts didnt get compensated for bounding leap. Genestealers were only faster than most units because of outflank giving them quite the threat range. now its like mycetic spores, there is going to be a turn oof shooting for the opponent before genestealers can assault from it
2) so fexen are no longer being laughed at? or they just got buffed a bit. Probably the latter.
Note: ah, i rolled the same mission type 3 times

[gloomfang]

1) Not being able to assault when they come on hurts, but it has nothing to do with range. And Horms still get a more consistent Run move than anyone and that is all Bounding Leap ever did.

2) Not laughed at. Lack of Fleet not as big a deal now. Wound allocation games with a Prime if you take a brood. They don't need smash to rip up light armor. Still not all that cost effective but not as bad as they were.

[Jabberwocky]

Infiltrate is still good on stealers. Turn 2 charges very possible still and with powers on Broodlord, can still do something useful turn 1.

Sorry wisdom, but Broodlords are in :-P

[wisdomseyes1]

hey, when 6th came in my mind became completely open to all of the crappiest of units from the last edition. I dont hate broodlords... yet

[wisdomseyes1]

so with the new reserves rules, are deepstiking lists with buffs from say, a tyrant, more viable. Also, I am having a hard time finding this, can winged Monstrous creatures/flying monstrous creatures still deepstrike? It used to be in the jump infantry section of the old rulebook, but this new one is difficult to navigate or I am just blind.

[Jabberwocky]

You know I'm not 100% on that. I just assumed they could.

Deepstriking lists are still possible but more risky. Now if you end a turn with nothing on the board, you auto lose. So no null deployment.

OA is better than ever though, helping with shooting, wounding and even hitting vehicles. Tyrant 2+ save is harder to break in combat and look out sir makes deathstars even better, especially if you have the biomancy power 'endurance' which will let you FnP and regen wounds on an entire unit. Add to that non-fleet units got a bit faster and the deathstar is looking quite strong still.

6th is still too early to say what definitely works but I think you'll find what works for you quite quickly.

I added a Flyrant back in and loved it from the get go. I've now added Swarmy back in and with biomancy he pretty much tabled GK by himself!

[wisdomseyes1]

I did read something about the nothing on the board thing. scared a few daemon players before they realized the difference between a game turn and a player turn.

One thing I always got annoyed with the hive tyrant for is that he couldnt have wings and a 2+ save for 100 points. *sigh*

Oh, look out sir. The 2+ roll for independent characters isnt very clear. is it 2+ and it hits the tyrant or 2+ and it hits the guard when the guard jumps in front of it?

It says on the description of "look out sir" that IC's do it on 2+ but I am confused if that means the IC is jumping in front of his unit or if the unit is jumping in front of him. The way I read it, the IC is jumping in front of the infantry, but that feels very unfluffy

After this question I'll actually build a list for help

[wisdomseyes1]

Well, that question doesnt matter as much anyway.

MOVING ON, here i that list I promised

1750

HQ (470)
Hive Tyrant
- Dual Twin Linked devourers
-Armored Shell
-Toxin Sacs
-Hive Commander
-Old Adversary
-Tyrant Guard (LW)
= 365

Tyranid Prime
-LW/BS
-Rending Claws
- Toxin Sacs
= 105

Troops (575)
Tervigan
-Toxin Sacs
-Adrenal glands
-catalyst
= 195

17 Devil Gants
-spore
= 210

17 Devil Gants
-spore
= 210

16 Devil Gants
-Spore
= 200

Heavy (460)

Trygon Prime
-Toxin Sacs
= 250

Trygon
-Toxin Sacs
= 210

== 1745

Normally I would have said "trygon Prime isnt worth the points because the gun is worthless" but with overwatch and my intentions to deepstrike him, I feel the synapse is a good shot. Unfortunately, termagants dont have feed, which is why I have to be careful about their synapse.

This list aslo includes a tyrant who before I would have never consdered in my normal points level and theory crafting I always said a tyranid prime was better. And honestly, if it wasnt for the +1 reserves, i wouldnt even be taking him. the new cheese with look out sir helps me justify it as well.

In my previous games in this edition, I avoided the tervigan because I was afraid of the new feel no pain rules. HOWEVER, i did realize that I basically ignored myself when I spoke on every single tervigan threat ever. It is a (please do not swear) to deal with scoring unit that last minute scores and supports the army.

devil gants, i assume everyone knows what they do and why they are there. to clarify further, vehicles can now be glanced to death and even if i need 6's to hit (i think there is some new rule about shooting at moving vehicles if I am not mistaken) i still have a good chance to glance once or twice getting rid of 1 or 2 hull points. deals with backing units, deals with terminators. they deal with pretty much everything and their uncles. and lets not forget that with new overwatch rules I am not only firing 30ish shots when I get down, I am firing another volley on a unit that makes it through the storm

I didnt include any elites this time. I have included Hive gurd in every list before this, and so far I have been unimpressed with the results. with the weird deployments thy are starting to faraway to be as effective as before.

Any suggestions on what to add or take away from the list and any opinions contrary to what I have stated in my description?

[gloomfang]

On a +2 the trooper takes the wound for the IC. You can also do it for Broodlords, but it is a 4+.


EDIT* List review.

Not sure if you need the Prime on the Trigon unless you want the shooting and the SitW.

The list is a little light on the AV14 with only 2 things that can hurt them. Flyers might be a problem if there are more than 1.

[wisdomseyes1]

Right, flyers exist now. What are tyranid ways to deal with them?

And the Prime on the trygon was exact for the shooting and synapse as I said in my breakdown

[gloomfang]

Jul 19, 2012 3:43:09 GMT wisdomseyes1 said:

Right, flyers exist now. What are tyranid ways to deal with them?

And the Prime on the trygon was exact for the shooting and synapse as I said in my breakdown

Right now we are trying to figure out how to deal with flyers too. Most thing come down to the TK power OM or MCs with twin linked Devourers.

And let me rephrase my question on the prime: Are you sure you need synapse and the shooting attack? Most people are going away from the prime to get the +2 attacks from feed.