Why we don't need allies and wouldyou if you could

[gloomfang]

Watching some people making and playing list with allies and I realized why we don't have them (or need them) from a non-fluff point of view.

Allies are used to cover the weakness of an army (generally). I am seeing Tau take orcs for CC. Marines take IG for cheap bodies. DE taking Eldar for psykers. The list goes on.

But looking at the Nid codex, we have one of the most internally balanced codexes out there (not pt balanced, but role balanced).

Want cheap bodies? We got that in spades.
Going more shooty? Take your pick of warriors, dakkafex or hive guard.
Jump troops? You want that elite or swarm?
Psykers and psychic defence? We hae some of the best.
Mech we don't have but our MCs fill that role pretty well. They are even more durable when compaired to things with hull points.
Leadership? Our entire army is Fearless if you have synapse.

So I am wondering if we could take allies, assume we have no Battle Brothers, what people even take? I don't think we would take mech and I honestly think that anything else out there would not work well within our synergies.

[nurglitch]

Presumably people would take allies to operate anti-aircraft weapons.

I like the allies rule in that it allows people to start collecting and using another army before it reaches a competitive size - I don't think it's a coincidence that the Imperial Guard can ally with virtually anyone, background aside. They're hard armies to build since you're committing to buying so many models. Basically an upsell, but I'm okay with that.

[Rakuall]

I wouldn't say we have one of the best psy-defenses. It's about as effective as marines, wolves, etc. but only half the range (or less). I guess we don't need allies, but RuneSeer+Shadow would be all shades of funny.

[sac_ld]

Hydras with skyfire seems like the first thing that we'd want and there 75pts each.

[Davor]

Oh I agree, I always said we had a balanced codex from the begining. Thing is people don't want balanced, they want over powered.

I think allies is great as was said, so you can now use 2 armies that you are collecting instead of playing just one at a time.

Why Tyranids don't have allies? Who knows. Maybe the new codex (when ever it comes out) will explain it. Then again, this is GW so maybe it won't.

I thought for sure it would be everyone against the Tyranids in the BGB, but I don't see that anywhere sadly.

If we could, I would. This way I can finally start using Orks that I bought, or even use my sons Necrons with my Nids when I play agaisnt others.

[gloomfang]

Jul 17, 2012 14:06:12 GMT Rakuall said:

I wouldn't say we have one of the best psy-defenses. It's about as effective as marines, wolves, etc. but only half the range (or less). I guess we don't need allies, but RuneSeer+Shadow would be all shades of funny.

We are less effective then SW and Eldar, but much more effective the hoods now. Hoods are at best a 4+ DtW to a unit within 6". Most armies will only have 1 or 2. We have several units that have SitW and that is a 12" bubble of 3D6.

[kippawah]

I would say it'd make the most sense to be "allied" with IG. You know, with Genestealer cults and whatnot.

I'd love to have a Leman Russ or perhaps even a Hydra / Medusa tank in the backfield taking care of heavy work from across the battle field...

[gloomfang]

Jul 17, 2012 14:06:19 GMT sac_ld said:

Hydras with skyfire seems like the first thing that we'd want and there 75pts each.

Why not take an aegis line with a quad-gun? Stick a biovore or Venomthrope gunner for the BS4. Costs a little bit more, but you get a better BS and a gun that has both skyfire and intercepter.

[WestRider]

Jul 17, 2012 14:48:12 GMT gloomfang said:

Jul 17, 2012 14:06:19 GMT sac_ld said:

Hydras with skyfire seems like the first thing that we'd want and there 75pts each.

Why not take an aegis line with a quad-gun? Stick a biovore or Venomthrope gunner for the BS4. Costs a little bit more, but you get a better BS and a gun that has both skyfire and intercepter.

Possibly because our FAQ says that Nids can never operate Emplaced Weapons. It remains to be seen if Emplaced Weapons and Weapon Emplacements are considered the same for those purposes, but it's entirely possible that we won't be able to use those.

Really, the reason I want Allies for my Nids is to be able to run Stealer Cult properly. Some more Anti-Aircraft options would be nice, but after having run a bunch of math on it, I'm no longer as scared of massed Flyers as I was. DakkaFexen do a lot better against them than I thought.

[gloomfang]

Jul 17, 2012 15:33:19 GMT WestRider said:

Possibly because our FAQ says that Nids can never operate Emplaced Weapons. It remains to be seen if Emplaced Weapons and Weapon Emplacements are considered the same for those purposes, but it's entirely possible that we won't be able to use those.

Gun Emplacement and Emplaced Weapon. I hate to be semantic about it but the fact people are mushing the rules together into one rule set (and they are extreamly diffrent. One has wounds, Toughness and armour save. The other is just like a weapon on a tank with autofire.) and the fact the names are already so close doesn't help.

And for fluffy fun I would love to run my Cult army again too.

[Davor]

Jul 17, 2012 14:42:50 GMT kippawah said:

I would say it'd make the most sense to be "allied" with IG. You know, with Genestealer cults and whatnot.

Why not Taucult, or Necrocult or Eldarcult or DEcult? Why does it have to be just IG, or I mean just humans? Wouldn't the Genestealer cults to the same to other races as well?

Now that would be nice to see. A Genestealercult for another race. I wonder what an Orkcult would be like?

[Rakuall]

A Necron cult seems unlikely, given that cults rely on reproduction. But I figure any organic race should be game for 'Nids to ally.

[Davor]

Ahh you are forgeting something Rakuall. What if it's the Necrons who captured the Stealers? Remember lots of Necrons, (forget the name) want to become flesh again. What if this is the way for them to become flesh?

[kippawah]

I have actually seen some stuff from many editions past where there were actually stealer/Ork hybrids. Pretty nasty stuff, i'd think.

Most obvious is the IG, though. Usually the first to fall victim to the Gene Cult, or at least, most common.

Genestealers had arisen from the Hive's first interactions with Mankind, didn't they?

[rcrih]

I did sort of want guard only so that I could run a chimera, two squads and maybe a few heavy weapons teams to represent planetary defense and adeptus arbites with a prime and a bunch of brood lords and genestealers to represent a cult. Not over powering but fluffy and fun. I can still do it because I can't imagine most of my friends and opponents caring because it would not be very competitive but it would have been nice to be able to do it inside the rules.