Force Organisation Chart,

[The DeathJester]

Just a odd idea,

I know at 2000 points the chart extends,

do I need to pick 2000pts worth of units befor I can then choose additional slots or if both players declare it a 2000pts game can I then use the extra chart.

I was tempted to abuse the extra elite slots with a 2000 point list,

[Lanesend]

You don't have to completely fill the 1st FOC, if that is what you meant.
Think of it like this. At 1999 points you can use 1 FOC. At 2000 points you can use 2 FOC's. And you can't buy an HQ and two Troops from 1 point.

So from 2000 points upwards, you MUST have 2 HQ and 4 TR. You can then fill the rest of your points with 2 more HQ, 8 more TR, 6 EL, 6 FA and 6 HS.

(in other words, abuse whatever you like........., just remember your opponent can also do that, AND take a detachment from another army.)

[coredump]

Lots of games and tourneys are now paying at 1999pts.....

[gloomfang]

Jul 16, 2012 11:24:43 GMT Lanesend said:

(in other words, abuse whatever you like........., just remember your opponent can also do that, AND take a detachment from another army.)

Correction: For each FoC you get 1 Fortification slot and one Allies Detachment. So with 2 FoCs you can get 2 forts and 2 Allied Detachments (But you still can only pick one Ally).

It gets real complex pretty fast.

[infornography]

From what I've heard, a lot of tournaments are running at 1999 points with one fudge point in case you go over to get around the abuses. I don't know what GW was thinking, 2000 points is far too low for that many FOC slots. It is just so abusable. Me and my friends are playing at 1850 points in the mean time.

[Davor]

1999+1 is still 2000 points. So instead of saying 2000 points but only with 1 FOC they come up with 1999+1? That sounds so stupid.

Ah no house rules are supposed to be allowed in Tournies, but yet here we have them in 6th edition. This goes to show you how big a joke Tournies are for 40K.

Ahhhh grown men and wht they do in order to win with their plastic toy soldiers.

What's next? No mysterious terrian? Oh wait....

[coredump]

Davor... what are you talking about?? Who ever said tournies don't have house rules?

[infornography]

Tournaments generally house rule things in order to level out some of the spikier randomness of the game so it is more about skill than luck. I just think that making the FOC pointless after 2000 points is a strange choice and wish they had gone with a more gradual shift.

[angeleania]

Have a 2k tournament second week of Aug, 6 games. They switched to 6th last week so its a bit of a rush, first thing i asked was if they are sticking with 2k, Nope they went with 1999, but kept in fortifications and allies. Well thanks.

As nids dont get allies i was hoping to be able to use the extra elite and heavy slots.

Guess not.
Was looking at two trygons and 2 units of biovores, 2 HG and doom with 2 Zoans, but nope
Still the usual house rules of no more than two of any heavy fast and elite choice, (no more than 2 LR's or Vendet's) has also gone. Well guess all the leveling has been removed and now will see spam lists with allies. Shh.

[coredump]

Talk to the TO, ask if Nids can be allowed to Ally with themselves....

[Lanesend]

^ This. A local tournamant here already put in the rules that at 2000 points, use one FOC, use allies, Nids can ally with themselves. Evens out pretty good it would seem.

BTW, I'm only playing "friendly games" (I hate that line, but at least you'll know what I mean), but I really don't get this 2x FOC stuff. Actually, we're already playing allies. (CSM + Deamons/ Guard + Marines, that kind of stuff)

I mean, 5th was made to allow for competative play and now 6th completly screws with people already in the comp. mindset. (random charges, mysterious objectives, double FOC).

I think it would have been better to make some basic rules (to be used in tournies) and then use expanded rules for beer/pretzel games. The whole world is making the distinction between tournament and kitchen table, so why not go along with that?

[coredump]

Because there is no need, and really no benefit. Tournies have always made their own decisions about what rules they will and won't use. And they will continue to do so.... if GW said 'these here are the tourney rules'... tournies would still pick and choose as they thought was best.

[The Hive Mind]

Jul 17, 2012 2:04:26 GMT infornography said:

I don't know what GW was thinking, 2000 points is far too low for that many FOC slots.

They were probably thinking hey if you play 3k you can us the Apocalypse rules and at 2k some armies you have filled most slots, (funny enough most Nid lists).

Makes sense to me... Some none GW US tournaments may play 2k, but the UK, where they are based plays mostly 1750pts, 1850pts or 1500pts, (all GW Throne of Skulls play 1500pts).

So... yeah they probably didn't even think anyone would care, tbh why do you care? How many lists do you make which are 2k bang on? If you have to play 1999pts is that 1pt REALLY gunna make a difference?

*Not aiming this at you directly infornography, just seen a few post about this and not really understanding what the hubbub is about. There are bigger things to moan about, (in 40k alone, never mind the real world) than 1 measly point been taken off game total for some tournament.

[infornography]

Actually, in 5th ed, pretty much every list I put together was exactly 2000 points. Only a couple when I didn't have many models and was first starting out were a bit shy.

My confusion more comes from the sudden shift than the idea that expanding the FOC is bad. At 2000 points having two full FOCs is no restriction at all, they might as well have said above 2000 points you have to have 2 HQs and 4 Troops but no other restrictions because very rarely is anyone going to be able to fill those slots without leaving a gaping hole in their army.

[Lanesend]

Jul 17, 2012 14:50:31 GMT coredump said:

Because there is no need, and really no benefit. Tournies have always made their own decisions about what rules they will and won't use. And they will continue to do so.... if GW said 'these here are the tourney rules'... tournies would still pick and choose as they thought was best.

Come to think of it, you're probably right.