Best way to arm a harpy and why?

[zookie]

The new MC flier rules breathed new life into the harpy. How do you think is the best way to arm a harpy and why? Or if a option is situational what is a situation that you would choose that option?

Heavy Venom cannon or Barbed Strangler?

Stinging Salvo or Cluster Spines?

Adrenal Glands?

Toxic Sacs?

Regeneration?

[ragnarok]

At the moment mine has stranglethorn cannon and stinger salvo.

For some reason I thought the stranglethorn was S8 (was that last edition?).

However this does give me a decent anti infantry template IDing guard and elder.

The stinger salvo gives it some chance against other flyers, not a great chance but a chance.

If I have the points I will give it regen. Since it is flying it won’t get wounded that often, allowing it to regain the one or two it loses.

[commandersasha]

Only played 1 game of 6th, but I see no reason to change mine: HVC now got better against vehicles, and Stinger Salvo for when you're closing in for the attack.
I'm going to play a few more games before I decide whether to add Regen: in 5th she normally died once the enemy decided to kill her, so Regen wasn't worth it; my first game of 6th she flew around, causing havoc, and survived the game, so Regen STILL wouldn't have been worth it!

[fleetofclaw]

Strangle and cluster spines. The math on stingers is awful, especially as an AA gun. Two big plates is awesome. Don't forget enfeeble will be awesome for doubling out t4 dudes with S6 guns. I think AG and TS is a waste on the harpy with only 2 attacks (yet I5?? Wtf GW).

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[N.I.B.]

I think the Harpy still has awful rules, no matter which gun you give it. A couple of Psydreads still kill it in one turn of shooting. You're best off dedicating your list around flying MC's if you go with a Harpy - like 2 Flyrant and 3 Harpies.

[paxmiles]

Jul 15, 2012 9:22:04 GMT N.I.B. said:

I think the Harpy still has awful rules, no matter which gun you give it. A couple of Psydreads still kill it in one turn of shooting. You're best off dedicating your list around flying MC's if you go with a Harpy - like 2 Flyrant and 3 Harpies.

Don't a couple of psydreads kills just about anything in the tyranid army?

8 twin linked BS4 shots, each is S8 and AP4. Typically, they all hit, and they wound anything we got on 2s. So 6 wound MCs are probably fine, as are models with 2+ armor, but even a carnifex is struggled against a couple of psydreads.

Hard to hit on the harpy means that they are at least hitting less. Psydread pairs should only be able to hit 2 or so times with the hard to hit rules. Each will wound, but won't instant death.

Big issue I see with the 'nid flyers is the grounding tests, which and inflict S9 hits with no armor saves. Grounding tests don't even require wounding (or being able to wound), just hitting the flyer.

But back to the OP, harpy has two builds in my opinion. An AT/AA build and an AP build.

AT/AA build is focused on dealing with light flyers (AV10) and suppressing tanks. Against ground targets, Heavy Venom Cannon and Stinger Salvo. Against Aerial targets, Stinger Salvo and Vector Strike. One of the cool things about vector strike is that it always hits with 2+D3 hits, even though the harpy has only 2 attacks....

AP focuses on pie plates, TL Stranglethorn cannon, Cluster Spines, and the stock spore mines. Goal is to hit as many targets as possible.

I think with either build, understand that the Harpy is not going to live forever. He will die sooner if he is doing his job well, by re-directing fire to him and not at your ground troops.

I would suggest regenerate on the harpy, both because it is cheap for him, and because it is a decent counter to grounding tests.
-Pax

[N.I.B.]

Jul 16, 2012 10:39:56 GMT paxmiles said:

Jul 15, 2012 9:22:04 GMT N.I.B. said:

I think the Harpy still has awful rules, no matter which gun you give it. A couple of Psydreads still kill it in one turn of shooting. You're best off dedicating your list around flying MC's if you go with a Harpy - like 2 Flyrant and 3 Harpies.

Don't a couple of psydreads kills just about anything in the tyranid army?

That's kind of the point with taking a FMC - they are supposed to be more survivable, but Harpies are still too easy to kill.
At least Carnifexes get their 3+ armour save, the Harpies 4+ save is negated by Psydreads.

And from todays rumours we hear that Chaos Space Marines hit the shelves 1st of September, and that their mechanical Dragons eats other fliers for breakfast.
I wouldn't invest the time and money for the Harpy conversions just yet, until the meta has stabilized and we know a bit more what to expect.

[coredump]

Heh... or use them now, fast. Before all the Skyfire comes out and they become really fragile...

[paxmiles]

Jul 16, 2012 13:41:11 GMT N.I.B. said:

That's kind of the point with taking a FMC - they are supposed to be more survivable, but Harpies are still too easy to kill.
At least Carnifexes get their 3+ armour save, the Harpies 4+ save is negated by Psydreads.

It's funny you say this.

two Psydreads vs carnifex
8 TL shots at BS4, needing 3s. 7.11 hit, including rerolls. S8 requires 2s to wound, 5.92 wounds. ~3.95 saves, ~1.97 unsaved wounds.


two Psy dreads Vs flying Harpy
8 TL shots at BS1, needing 6s to hit. 2.44 hits. 2.03 wounds. 2.03 unsaved wounds. 33% chance of grounding failure, resulting in another hit as S9, 0.83 wounds, and no saves (Note that 33% failure is per grounding test, each dread can inflict one, but the harpy can only fail one. Each dread must hit the harpy in order to both inflict grounding tests).

Assuming the harpy doesn't fail the grounding test, Carnifexen are looking at 0.06 wounds less than harpies, and that is it.

So, as before, If they are shooting at the harpy, it means they are not shooting at something else. I suggest running the carnifex or trygon straight into their face, should they ignore it and focus on the harpy...

Also note that both the fex and the harp could recieve a catalyst FNP save for this. A TK psyker could even give the harp an invulnerable save.

And not to mention regeneration, which will certainly restore a wound on grounded harpy (3 wounds, 1/3 chance of success per wound, should get back at least 1 wound).
-Pax

[paxmiles]

Oh, and he's the math for Stinger Salvo+vector strike harpy. Posted it on another thread, so quoting myself.

Jul 16, 2012 10:43:23 GMT paxmiles said:

Stinger Salvo. BS 1, 4 shots, .66 hits.
Vector Strike. Auto hit with 2+d3. For simplicity, calling the D3, "2," as that is the median result. 4 hits.
Now, To glance, both are S5, so he's got 4.66 hits.
Vs AV10: 0.77 glances and 0.77 pens, or 1.55 will either glance or pen.
Vs AV11: 0.77 glances.
Vs AV12: S5 can't dent this...
-Pax

As you can see, damage isn't anything amazing, but every little bit helps.
-Pax

[N.I.B.]

Thanks for doing the math, so it seems on average the Harpy takes ~3 wounds as it would have around a 66% chance of failing the Grounded test, assuming one hit from each Psydread.

Heh... or use them now, fast. Before all the Skyfire comes out and they become really fragile...

Yeah, those precious few that already had 3 Harpies and a couple of Flyrants have a golden age atm. It's like the 1-2 months of 7th ed VC before DoC hit the shelves.

[paxmiles]

Remember that with the mysterious objectives in all the standard missions, they have a 1/6 chance of getting skyfire. 1/2 if they have the one divination spell that allows best of 3 dice on this roll.

The fortifications that can be bought also feature units with skyfire.
-Pax

[apaosa]

Scrier's Gaze only affects reserves, outflank, and terrain; Also, just noticed that only scoring units can utilize the effect of the objective.

[coredump]

Depending on how you feel about swooping/Grounded... if the first Psidread grounds the Harpy, then the second one hits on normal BS.

[paxmiles]

Jul 16, 2012 22:24:09 GMT coredump said:

Depending on how you feel about swooping/Grounded... if the first Psidread grounds the Harpy, then the second one hits on normal BS.

Ooo, ouch. Missed that one. Could be a huge problem for harpies. Positioning is going to be huge in this edition.
-Pax