Post by gloomfang on Jul 11, 2012 15:39:11 GMT
Ugg spent a few hours arguing with people on how lash whips work now and here are the rules as they stand right now (from my understanding).
Lash whips state that models in BtB count as I1 for the rest of assault. So anyone who claims they get to attack at Init. if a model that is engaged in the combat but not in BtB kills the lash whip using model is wrong. Note that this rule does not apply to Necron Whip Coils as they do not have the "rest of assult" language.
Next issue is when you check for Init. You do it for the players turn that it is first. After checking Init you make a pile in move, check to see who is now engaged in the combat and then roll to hit.
The issue is that if the model moves into BtB when the lash whip is the defending model, they get to attack at thier normal Init. This is becasue you do not check Init. again during the rest of the Init. Step.
However if you move the lash whip into BtB BEFORE they check for thier Init. Step, they are then dropped to I1. So when it is the defenders turn to check Init they will be foreced to wait till Init Step 1.
As I broke it down on Dakka I might as well post it here to explain.
1) Starting with I10 check for units with an Initative currently at the Initative step.
2) Players whos turn it is pile in: Check the initative of each model. If it is equal to the Initative round it acts this round. Make a pile in move of 3" for each model able to act.
3) Check who can attack: Defined as anyone in BtB or within 2" of an attacking model in BtB can be attacked. States that models with the same initative strike at the same time even if they are already killed during the attackers turn. If there current Init is lower then they can be killed berore they get to strike back.*
4) Detetmine number of attacks: For each model take base number of attacks in profile and apply modifers.
a) Roll to hit: Compare WS on chart. Roll to see if you hit for each attack.
b) Roll to wound: Compare Strength of weapon to average Toughness of the unit being hit for each successfull to hit roll.
5) Allocate wounds: Allocate wounds per rules.
6) Make saves: Make any saves on each wounded model that may be applied. Mark the number of unsaved wounds on each model.
7)Repeat steps 2-7 for the unit for the opponets turn.
8) Remove all causualties for both sides.
9) Decrement the Initative step by 1. Repeat steps 1-9 until Step I0 is hit. When I0 is hit the Fight Sub-Phase is over. Go to Combat Res.
So the only time you check Init is in step 1. Yes he might be I1 AFTER he moves into BtB with the lash whip, but it doesn't matter becasue there are no more checks for Init.
Technicaly he is still reduced to I1 for the rest of the assualt, but as he already attacked it doesn't matter. He will get to pile in again at I1, but he will have no more attacks to use. Might be some wierd esoteric case where it matters, but I can't think of any.
Thoughts on my logic?
*Edit- Added in models who Int is now lower than the attackers Init can now be killed before they strike back.
Lash whips state that models in BtB count as I1 for the rest of assault. So anyone who claims they get to attack at Init. if a model that is engaged in the combat but not in BtB kills the lash whip using model is wrong. Note that this rule does not apply to Necron Whip Coils as they do not have the "rest of assult" language.
Next issue is when you check for Init. You do it for the players turn that it is first. After checking Init you make a pile in move, check to see who is now engaged in the combat and then roll to hit.
The issue is that if the model moves into BtB when the lash whip is the defending model, they get to attack at thier normal Init. This is becasue you do not check Init. again during the rest of the Init. Step.
However if you move the lash whip into BtB BEFORE they check for thier Init. Step, they are then dropped to I1. So when it is the defenders turn to check Init they will be foreced to wait till Init Step 1.
As I broke it down on Dakka I might as well post it here to explain.
1) Starting with I10 check for units with an Initative currently at the Initative step.
2) Players whos turn it is pile in: Check the initative of each model. If it is equal to the Initative round it acts this round. Make a pile in move of 3" for each model able to act.
3) Check who can attack: Defined as anyone in BtB or within 2" of an attacking model in BtB can be attacked. States that models with the same initative strike at the same time even if they are already killed during the attackers turn. If there current Init is lower then they can be killed berore they get to strike back.*
4) Detetmine number of attacks: For each model take base number of attacks in profile and apply modifers.
a) Roll to hit: Compare WS on chart. Roll to see if you hit for each attack.
b) Roll to wound: Compare Strength of weapon to average Toughness of the unit being hit for each successfull to hit roll.
5) Allocate wounds: Allocate wounds per rules.
6) Make saves: Make any saves on each wounded model that may be applied. Mark the number of unsaved wounds on each model.
7)Repeat steps 2-7 for the unit for the opponets turn.
8) Remove all causualties for both sides.
9) Decrement the Initative step by 1. Repeat steps 1-9 until Step I0 is hit. When I0 is hit the Fight Sub-Phase is over. Go to Combat Res.
So the only time you check Init is in step 1. Yes he might be I1 AFTER he moves into BtB with the lash whip, but it doesn't matter becasue there are no more checks for Init.
Technicaly he is still reduced to I1 for the rest of the assualt, but as he already attacked it doesn't matter. He will get to pile in again at I1, but he will have no more attacks to use. Might be some wierd esoteric case where it matters, but I can't think of any.
Thoughts on my logic?
*Edit- Added in models who Int is now lower than the attackers Init can now be killed before they strike back.
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