Post by Harvey on Jul 7, 2012 16:30:23 GMT
Every Tyranid Player loves their Hive Guard
What's not to love about a durable and reliable, point efficient unit that comes with some funky rules such as not needing line of sight to target an enemy?
Hive Guard have an interesting weapon called a Impaler Cannon, which ignore cover to a certain degree.
Special Rule is as Quote
Tyranid Codex (p47):
"The inpaler cannon can shoot any target in range regardless of whether there is line of sight or not. The target can only count the benefit of cover they are in or touching if it lies between them and Hive Guard. Vehicles are always hit on the armour value facing the Hive Gaurd."
Now this is still a pretty confusing rule, no one was quite sure what was meant by or counted as "in or touching" to gain the benefit of cover.
After a while the Tyranid FAQ was released which revealed..... nothing, 2 years after that another one came out that had the following Q&A.
"Q: Can a unit take cover saves from any source other than the terrain they are in, or touching againts Wounds caused by an impaler cannon? (p47)
A: No."
This cleared up a lot of things and pretty much made Hive Guard one of the best Anti-Vehicle units in the game due to impaler cannons ignoring things like Smoke Grenades, Flat-out, Custom Force Field and that weird 12 inchy Tau thing that everyone hated.
If Tyranid player didn't love there already pampered Hive Guard, they did now, to a point where it was not uncommon to see 9 (3x3) in a list.
With the release of 6th Ed a common dispute has been arising, which I can only believe is because Terrain rules became easier to understand or people just started giving a (please do not swear) instead of just claiming everything 4+ area terrain for simplicity reasons. (Maybe that fact that Area Terrain is now 5+ while ruins are 4+).
This once again comes down to what does being "In" terrain counts as? , now believe it or not what I'm about to explain was exactly how it also functioned in 5th Edition. It's just that Area Terrain is now a 5+ and that with all other cover saves you only need to be 25% obscured to gain a cover save instead of 50%.
I shall once again quote the Impaler Cannon's FAQ
"Q: Can a unit take cover saves from any source other than the terrain they are in, or touching againts Wounds caused by an impaler cannon? (p47)
A: No."
What terrain can you claim to be "In"?
This is what I am about to explain.
Let's take 2 examples (which coincidently are the most common ones).
A simple piece of area terrain (say a crater) and a ruin piece without a base.
When standing in area terrain a model can claim a 5+ cover save regardless of whether he is 25% obscured or not, thus you can claim a 5+ cover save + modifiers (stealth, shrouded, ect) against impaler cannons.
Now let's say a model is standing behind a ruin wall (most ruin pieces are only maybe one or two walls anyway). He is fired upon by bolter rounds, from the firers perspective the model behind the ruin wall is more than 25% obscured thus gains a 4+ save due to ruins providing a 4+ save in this manner.
It functions exactly like how all other terrain that obscures line of sight and provides cover works, if the enemy was to shoot you from the exposed end of the ruin so your model is not 25% obscured you will not gain a 4+ cover save.
From the 6th edition rule book
Razor Wire - 6+
Forest and area terrain - 5+
Ruins, ruined fortifications and trenches - 4+
Fortifications - 3+
Notice how "Ruins" are in the list. As they have no mention to having any special rules that "area terrain" does regarding cover, it is treated as being like any other Line of Sight obscuring object.
Because of this, despite what you could say ("My Marines are in the Ruin"). Rules wise, Area Terrain is the only Terrain type you can be "In" other than difficult or dangerous terrain which don't give cover.
Page 18 of the 6th Edition Rulebook: Cover Saves
There is nothing in the rule book stating that you can be "In" what you are claiming cover from, only "Behind", (other than Area Terrain which is explained later in the book).
Let's explain it this way, a model obscured by friendly units gains a 5+ cover save, if you were to surround a model with another squad it does not count as being "In" the squad does it?
Nor does it count as being "In" terrain, so if fired upon by Impaler cannons would not gain a cover save (unless in area terrain or base to base with the friendly model obscuring him).
For the purposes of cover, inanimate objects (including ruins) functions in the exact same way.
Because of this, ruins, huts or any other encased structure that does not count as a Building cannot give a cover save to models occupying it from Impaler Cannons unless physically touching the section of said structure that is obscuring at least 25% of model.
Also, just so you know. Regarding a ruin on a base, only the bottom floor (the actual base) can be classified as area terrain. Any level above the bottom floor counts as a standard ruin without area terrain.
Passing through the walls or decending/accending levels of a ruin only cause difficult terrain tests. Moving along the same level of a ruin does not hinder movement, as you cannot have a model inside a ruin wall or floor it does not count as being "In"
I know this is a long wordy post but I hope it informed people on resolving any confusing that is caused by impaler cannons.
Cheers.
What's not to love about a durable and reliable, point efficient unit that comes with some funky rules such as not needing line of sight to target an enemy?
Hive Guard have an interesting weapon called a Impaler Cannon, which ignore cover to a certain degree.
Special Rule is as Quote
Tyranid Codex (p47):
"The inpaler cannon can shoot any target in range regardless of whether there is line of sight or not. The target can only count the benefit of cover they are in or touching if it lies between them and Hive Guard. Vehicles are always hit on the armour value facing the Hive Gaurd."
Now this is still a pretty confusing rule, no one was quite sure what was meant by or counted as "in or touching" to gain the benefit of cover.
After a while the Tyranid FAQ was released which revealed..... nothing, 2 years after that another one came out that had the following Q&A.
"Q: Can a unit take cover saves from any source other than the terrain they are in, or touching againts Wounds caused by an impaler cannon? (p47)
A: No."
This cleared up a lot of things and pretty much made Hive Guard one of the best Anti-Vehicle units in the game due to impaler cannons ignoring things like Smoke Grenades, Flat-out, Custom Force Field and that weird 12 inchy Tau thing that everyone hated.
If Tyranid player didn't love there already pampered Hive Guard, they did now, to a point where it was not uncommon to see 9 (3x3) in a list.
With the release of 6th Ed a common dispute has been arising, which I can only believe is because Terrain rules became easier to understand or people just started giving a (please do not swear) instead of just claiming everything 4+ area terrain for simplicity reasons. (Maybe that fact that Area Terrain is now 5+ while ruins are 4+).
This once again comes down to what does being "In" terrain counts as? , now believe it or not what I'm about to explain was exactly how it also functioned in 5th Edition. It's just that Area Terrain is now a 5+ and that with all other cover saves you only need to be 25% obscured to gain a cover save instead of 50%.
I shall once again quote the Impaler Cannon's FAQ
"Q: Can a unit take cover saves from any source other than the terrain they are in, or touching againts Wounds caused by an impaler cannon? (p47)
A: No."
What terrain can you claim to be "In"?
This is what I am about to explain.
Let's take 2 examples (which coincidently are the most common ones).
A simple piece of area terrain (say a crater) and a ruin piece without a base.
When standing in area terrain a model can claim a 5+ cover save regardless of whether he is 25% obscured or not, thus you can claim a 5+ cover save + modifiers (stealth, shrouded, ect) against impaler cannons.
Now let's say a model is standing behind a ruin wall (most ruin pieces are only maybe one or two walls anyway). He is fired upon by bolter rounds, from the firers perspective the model behind the ruin wall is more than 25% obscured thus gains a 4+ save due to ruins providing a 4+ save in this manner.
It functions exactly like how all other terrain that obscures line of sight and provides cover works, if the enemy was to shoot you from the exposed end of the ruin so your model is not 25% obscured you will not gain a 4+ cover save.
From the 6th edition rule book
Razor Wire - 6+
Forest and area terrain - 5+
Ruins, ruined fortifications and trenches - 4+
Fortifications - 3+
Notice how "Ruins" are in the list. As they have no mention to having any special rules that "area terrain" does regarding cover, it is treated as being like any other Line of Sight obscuring object.
Because of this, despite what you could say ("My Marines are in the Ruin"). Rules wise, Area Terrain is the only Terrain type you can be "In" other than difficult or dangerous terrain which don't give cover.
Page 18 of the 6th Edition Rulebook: Cover Saves
There is nothing in the rule book stating that you can be "In" what you are claiming cover from, only "Behind", (other than Area Terrain which is explained later in the book).
Let's explain it this way, a model obscured by friendly units gains a 5+ cover save, if you were to surround a model with another squad it does not count as being "In" the squad does it?
Nor does it count as being "In" terrain, so if fired upon by Impaler cannons would not gain a cover save (unless in area terrain or base to base with the friendly model obscuring him).
For the purposes of cover, inanimate objects (including ruins) functions in the exact same way.
Because of this, ruins, huts or any other encased structure that does not count as a Building cannot give a cover save to models occupying it from Impaler Cannons unless physically touching the section of said structure that is obscuring at least 25% of model.
Also, just so you know. Regarding a ruin on a base, only the bottom floor (the actual base) can be classified as area terrain. Any level above the bottom floor counts as a standard ruin without area terrain.
Passing through the walls or decending/accending levels of a ruin only cause difficult terrain tests. Moving along the same level of a ruin does not hinder movement, as you cannot have a model inside a ruin wall or floor it does not count as being "In"
I know this is a long wordy post but I hope it informed people on resolving any confusing that is caused by impaler cannons.
Cheers.
"