Lashwhips and pile in moves

[gloomfang]

OK I have a question/problem with lashwhips.

Lets say I have Swarmlord with 2 guards with lashwhips (who doesn't?)

Now old Swarmy charged into combat at I6 with his two guards in tow at I4 into a group of Dark Eldar at I5.

We are in base to base contact as usual. One unit in BtB with each member of my unit. Swarmlord take HoW and kills the unit he is in BtB.

At I6 he piles in 3" and then kills a few more (along with all of the units in BtB with the Guard) but there are still some left.

Now we go to I6 so the rest of the DE not in BtB with my unit pile in. But during the pile in some of them have to come into BtB with the Guard with the whips.

So the units in BtB with the guard are now I1. The ones not in BtB attack. So that would be anyone in BtB with the Swarmlord and anyone within 2 inches of a friendly unit in BtB, but not the ones ACTUALLY in BtB with the guard.

So then my guard get to attack. They are in BtB with the guys who are at I1 so they get no pile in move. They manage to kill all but one of the guys in BtB. That one guy gets to attack and the round is over.

He then gets to go.

Am I doing this right? It feels bit like feeding people to a meatgrinder by having the enemy pile into BtB with the lashwhip and suddenly go to I1. But the rules say if they CAN get into BtB with the 3" move they must. So they can't stop short once there is already a someone in BtB and just stay within 2" of someone wo is in base to base so they can get to attack at initiative.

[carnogaunt]

It certainly appears that you're doing it right.

This situation isn't addressed in the FAQ.

Edit- The rules also seem to imply that the DE model would be able to make a second pile in move if the Tyrant Guard dies before he strikes.

[sturm]

Sounds about right. You made me realize that lash whip states that MODELS in btb contact are I1 and not UNITS. Oops. So yeah, meatgrinder.

[gloomfang]

Jul 6, 2012 4:10:26 GMT carnogaunt said:

It certainly appears that you're doing it right.

This situation isn't addressed in the FAQ.

Edit- The rules also seem to imply that the DE model would be able to make a second pile in move if the Tyrant Guard dies before he strikes.

That is good to keep in mind. I might have forgotten to have them pile in again.

[coredump]

Well, thats because they shouldn't... sort of.

Afterall,they are no longer in base with a whip, therefore they are no longer at I1.

So... marine commander (I5) piles in at I5, and gets into base with a LW guard. He now goes at I1, and thus can't attack.
At I4, the rest of the marines go, and kill that guard.
Now the captain is back at I5.... but has missed his chance to attack.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA.......!!!!! Foolish Mortals!!!



Anyway, thats the way the rules work, not sure it if makes sense or not. I kinda like it for synergy fun.... but it also seems a bit unfair.

[carnogaunt]

Jul 6, 2012 5:11:53 GMT coredump said:

Afterall,they are no longer in base with a whip, therefore they are no longer at I1.

Once they are in base contact with a Lash Whip, their Initiative counts as 1 "until the end of the assault phase."

[Jabberwocky]

Jul 6, 2012 5:48:33 GMT carnogaunt said:

Jul 6, 2012 5:11:53 GMT coredump said:

Afterall,they are no longer in base with a whip, therefore they are no longer at I1.

Once they are in base contact with a Lash Whip, their Initiative counts as 1 "until the end of the assault phase."

This is how me and my friend played it last night. I1 for the round.

[Talonis]

So does this mean that when the pile in move for Init 5 comes, the DE will move into contact with the whip, but even though it was activated at initiative 5, won't attack now till Init 1?

Lets look at the rules:

Charge Sub Phase
Nothing new here, models move into b2b, so this is straight forward.

Fight Sub Phase

First thing is working down the Init step, starting at 10. DE is Init 5 so 5 comes along and before working out who is engaged, the Start of Initative Step Pile in happens. *pg23

Models move up to 3" to reach b2b or if not possible move into 2" of a friendly model in b2b with enemy.

Next, Who can fight *pg 23
This is where you now work out who is locked in combat and engaged,
A Model is engaged in combat, and must fight if:
- During its Init step is in base contact with one or more enemy models
- Durring its initiative step, is within 2" of a friendly model in base contact with one or more enemy models in the same combat ( not applicable to the Lash Whip rule)

Next models make their attack when their Initiative step is reached *pg 23 2nd column in bold at the top*

It states, "next", implying that it happens after the pile in move.

So the DE moves at Init 5, but then becomes engaged and in base contact with a model with lash whips and will strike at Init 1 as per the lash whip rules.

Next question will be, does it get another pile in move at Init 1?

[coredump]

Jul 6, 2012 5:48:33 GMT carnogaunt said:

Jul 6, 2012 5:11:53 GMT coredump said:

Afterall,they are no longer in base with a whip, therefore they are no longer at I1.

Once they are in base contact with a Lash Whip, their Initiative counts as 1 "until the end of the assault phase."

Freakin' Awesome!!! Nice catch, thanks. Clears up a 'goofy' situation.




I would say yes, if the LW model dies, there would be another pile in at step 1. I don't see it happening too often. But it makes sense to me.

[Talonis]

You could make sense of it by saying the model was pulled in at the higher Init by the lash whip, then has broken free from the lash whip and is running back into the fight