Early 6th ed musings

[N.I.B.]

I really like this new game. I've had only two games, mostly to get to know the rules. A crushing win with a shooty based list (against Space Wolves Razorspam) and a crushing loss with a combat based list (against Necrons with silly Nob Biker allies), but I enjoy the rules and how the game plays so far. Both lists were old 5th ed lists.

I feel I have too little experience at this point to form a solid opinion. It's easy to draw the conclusion that shooting is king, but on the flipside combat is somewhat better for Nids in 6th ed, once you get there. And that's the tricky part for an assault army - to get into combat with enough numbers to win. I don't feel I have 'unlocked' 6th ed yet. Lots of MC's and lots of shooting seem to be the recipy for success.


I must get a few games with normal lists under my belt (normal, as in 2x10 Termagants, 2 Tervigons, 2-3 Trygons, 6-9 Hive Guards, Hive Tyrant with bodyguards) and see how things roll.

What I've learned so far

* Self Blessings are mostly pointless for Broodlords as wound rolls go against the majority toughness as usual (unless BL is positioned in the front). Your Iron Arm T8 Broodlord still dies like a 5th ed Broodlord as long as he has more than one Genestealer alive in his unit (sure he can Look Out Sir a few wounds, but then the unit dies faster).

* Random charges suck so much it's not even funny. Wait until the first time your Raveners fails an 8" charge with rerolls, and see if you enjoy the randomness.

* It's very gratifying and easy to wreck vehicles by shooting and CC now.

* Preferred Enemy is hard to get the most out of, when it's on a Flyrant. Better suited for a Walking Tyrant.

* Overwatch is really good, because it stacks with things like Rapid Fire, Tesla and stuff.

* Toughness buffs mean little for a Broodlord as long as there are more than one Genestealer in his unit.

Dead tired, bedtime.

[Geneva]

I've only had a single 1,000pt game so far and even then I'm sure we overlooked some of the new rules. What I have found is that torrent fire is king in this edition and some well placed S4 shots can reduce tanks to wrecks in no time at all. I like that. No longer do I have to take obligatory units just to be able to deal with transports and the like. Devilgaunts are deadly!

The change to Fleet hurts though. Like really, really bad. My Hormagaunts were shredded slugging it across the battlefield and then were wittled down further by Overwatch. Not having to worry about No Retreat! isn't that great a boon when your unit doesn't even survive long enough to see a second round of combat.

MCs are devastating. All this talk of grenades had me worried but with Tervigons smashing tanks apart on par with a Carnifex, it's a worthwhile trade off. A Tervigon with Crushing Claws and Biomancy makes for a handy DISTRACTION CARNIFEX unit in this edition as they're a genuine threat to anything nearby.

Flyers are a pain though. Especially Vendettas. I thought those things were bad before but they're downright ridiculous now. Hopefully newer codexes will give enough reasons to thin the potential spam of them.

All in all, I really like this edition. Fliers are a potential stain on the carpet and wound allocation just seems awkward at times (4th Ed WA without break offs, GW. Is that really so much to ask for?) but the pros outway the cons. Random charges don't actually bother me as much as I would have thought either. If only Hormagaunts were still Beasts....

[liquid405]

Jul 3, 2012 21:41:08 GMT N.I.B. said:

* Random charges suck so much it's not even funny. Wait until the first time your Raveners fails an 8" charge with rerolls, and see if you enjoy the randomness.

Dont forget that you can reroll one or more dice on the charge! That is massive!

[swarm492]

not as massive as you would think I test rolled 50 2d6 rolls with rerolls earlier because I was bored. the average was 8.1 inches

[liquid405]

Jul 4, 2012 2:59:06 GMT swarm492 said:

not as massive as you would think I test rolled 50 2d6 rolls with rerolls earlier because I was bored. the average was 8.1 inches

The math average is 8.5", which is 1.5" farther. Its still pretty useful.

[bigpig]

Jul 4, 2012 2:59:06 GMT swarm492 said:

not as massive as you would think I test rolled 50 2d6 rolls with rerolls earlier because I was bored. the average was 8.1 inches

Thats actually a bit above average on straight 2d6 (7 as anyone who's shot dice in Vegas can attest). Ultimately, figuring the average charge doesn't matter, its the fact that (as NIB is stating) you can't count on the average and are subject to fickle swing of chance.

I am never a fan of having your best laid plans come apart because of luck. The flip side is to think your unit is safe only to have your opponent roll a 12 inch charge and wipe you off the winning objective end game. While I only have one game of 6th under my belt, I played several games of 8th Fantasy before punching out. The shift to random charge distances in that system really turned me off. I'm hoping it doesn't do the same here because this game is ultimately less about simple CC than WHFB is.

[korzon]

My wife failed a 4 inch charge with a 20 strong squad of bloodletters today and looked up and asked me why GW would slow down her army. I tried to explain there were chances to be taken (or some such line) and see just glared. She then proceeded to run rampant over my gaunts and hive guard with her two squads of fiends.... after the end of the game she admits to not liking the new rule but really enjoyed the buffs her other troops received.

Obviously we will have to keep playing and see how often the failed charges occur before we get really upset. I have only seen two in 4 games played and 2 others watched this week.

[Jabberwocky]

Raveners failed a charge by a few inches but they moved an additional 6 in the movement phase.

I also haven't seen people complain about gants making 9" charges after moving 6" from their mother Terv.

It's swings and roundabouts really.

[Illithid]

I can see us cheering when we get 9+ charges and groaning when we fail by an inch or so, but that will be the way the cookie crumbles.

[Psychichobo]

Random charges are swings and roundabouts - I've played enough fantasy to know that. Once saw a poor chaos player send two Chariots - one with lord - straight at my Bestigor unit. They both only needed 8" (on top of movement) and with Chariots you roll 3 dice and pick the two highest.

Both results were 5". I then charged him and obliterated one, overran into the other and crushed that. Depressing.



What you'll find you have to start doing is to prepare yourself for the possibility of failure. Have a backup plan and try to assume that only charges of 7" are really viable with fleet units, anything above is immediately a risk.

[Inquisitor Stingray]

'Stealers and Hormagaunts surely took a nerf. No Outflank for 'Stealers and the unpredictable charge length of Hormgaunts is surely depressing. If they somehow rewrote the Bounding Leap rule to also affect charges, that would help a lot. Other than that, I figure this edition is alright. I have a hard time seeing why Games Workshop would want more random movement, but that is the way thing is ment to be.

[nidzy]

The random charge thing certainly goes both ways (like lady gaga?)

In my last game in the same assault phase I failed a 3 inch charge with shrikes I had moved 12 with in the movement phase, then a 7 inch charge with raveners rolling a 3 followed by a 5. At the same time, my opponent failed a couple of 6 inch charges with his plague marines and had a couple other unlucky rolls.

In 5th I played my best when I was setting up multiple units to hit at the same time, having the patience to weather a round of shooting if it meant that more units would arrive together. I think that this edition will be similar, but I haven't figure out how to optimize my list to deal most effectively with the random factor.

[coredump]

But the good and bad don't balance. (Swings and roundabouts... You wacky British folks....)

A roll of 4 is much more likely to screw you over, than a roll of 10 is going to help. How often are you going to try for a 10" assault? But it is likely to try for a 5-6-7" assault.

[gigasnail]

having the patience to weather a round of shooting is a luxury most of our units can't afford, being as the vast majority of them have a 5+ or 6+ armor save and are going to die screaming and on fire.

[Illithid]

Ripper Screens, I have said it a few times, but I think they are the answer.