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Post by coredump on Jun 30, 2012 17:19:36 GMT
Swarmlord didnt get nerfed, remember, he rolls the number of powers equal to what he knew in the codex OR his mastery level (if you buy them). Thats not what I read in the FAQ. If he has 4 in codex, he can trade for 4 in BRB. OTOH, it looks like all or nothing, he can't swap out only 2. (I don't think) I agree, at least it appears that way. There may be some benefits that are not readily apparent. But it does not look good at this point.[/quote] Not sure why you say this. You don't *have* to swoop, but it also gives you lots of extra movement, you can Vector strike one unit, and shoot a different one, much larger effective range for Paroxysm, etc. Yes, they are weirdly susceptible to mass small arms fire.... but I don't think that will be a big deal in practice. WHAT??!!?? How many ICs in the game look forward to a challenge from the Swarmlord, or even a HT? And don't discount the Blord. That 60pt model now has almost a 60% chance of nullifying *any* IC in the game, and a better shot at many of them. Challenges are one of the only bright spots I see. (assuming we can get passed the shooting into CC range.) No, but 3 glances keeps them from shooting, forever. We have *lots* of things that can glance vehicles, but no one cared because glances were not a threat. So now fly 10 gargs around a loaded rhino; 10 HoW hits, then 20 attacks for 10 more hits. 3 glances, a wrecked rhino with a dead unit inside. And no chance for Explode. HGaunts can do similar. Really? Most vehicles have AV10-11 rear armor. HT got 5 attacks, so 2.5 hits, and needs a 6 to pen. Now would get 3 attacks and 2 hits. Needs a 2 to pen, and gets to reroll it. Against AV14, the HT needs a 9 to pen Now needs a 5, but gets a reroll. Eventually I will run the actual numbers, but for now they look pretty darn comparable. The real questions, is how the meta will change. Assaults have taken hits, but especially with assaulting out of transports. This means we may see much more foot armies; this is a *big* help to our armies. If the reduction in vehicles leads to less missiles and melta... that could help our TMCs. I tend to think in terms of CC, so the preferred enemy changes seem like a nerf. But getting to help shooting, and wounding.... if used well could be very helpful. TMCs now only need 25% cover to get a save. Like I have said before, I am not 'happy' with the changes, but there have been some beneficial changes, we just need to see if we can capitalize on them enough. |
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Post by coredump on Jun 30, 2012 17:27:59 GMT
Yes it will be pretty good against vehicles... so what? Against infantry, out HT is S6 and AP2, and goes on I5 And the Hive Tyrant will be hitting himself ~50% of the times, thanks to the single most broken item in the game - Mindshackle Scarabs. Then the Overlord finish the job easymode. I'm getting kind of fed up at this already, from my games against Necrons. Oh, I was not referring to them fighting each other, just comparing their stats. And sure Mindshackle is wrong, but he was complaining about Warscythe, not Mindshackle. OTOH, those scarabs makes Necrons the scariest army for Challenges.... |
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Post by swarm492 on Jun 30, 2012 17:30:45 GMT
Personaly I expected us to perform about the same if not alittle worse overall as a dex, we always get beat by a feral pack of children with nerf bats when our faqs come out. In the end all I can say is hull points, I think this simple change will make up so much ground its scary
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Post by Davor on Jun 30, 2012 18:03:46 GMT
Can the HT/SL be picked out in Shooting or CC now if he joins the TG?
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Post by coredump on Jun 30, 2012 18:05:42 GMT
As far as I can tell, it just goes close to far... so wherever the HT is will dictate when he starts taking shots.
LOS not withstanding.
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Post by Davor on Jun 30, 2012 18:06:32 GMT
All I know so far, reading the FAQ, and a bit of the new rules, finally got it, my money doesn't seem to be going to GW. There it goes in Fall to Privateer Press when their new Starter Set comes out.
Come on, GW, don't you want my money for Tyranids???
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Post by gloomfang on Jun 30, 2012 18:13:04 GMT
As far as I can tell, it just goes close to far... so wherever the HT is will dictate when he starts taking shots. LOS not withstanding. TG get a +2 Look out sir roll to protect HT/SL. |
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rcrih
Genestealer
Posts: 57
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Post by rcrih on Jun 30, 2012 18:19:27 GMT
I am not going to buy anything but I will try some games. So far I think this has finally pushed me to dust warfare completely.
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Post by fnorrll on Jun 30, 2012 18:33:24 GMT
Personaly I expected us to perform about the same if not alittle worse overall as a dex, we always get beat by a feral pack of children with nerf bats when our faqs come out. In the end all I can say is hull points, I think this simple change will make up so much ground its scary For as long as everyone keeps relying on vehicle spam, yeah. Once they wise up and shift to more balanced lists, all the other rules come into play. Worst changes for me have to be threat radius and outflank. The rest of it is big changes we miss out on, but doesnt change too much what we could do before. There are plus sides and downsides, its true. Only time and games will tell how the balance has shifted. I wonder what all the other armies out there are thinking. |
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Post by rpricew on Jun 30, 2012 18:33:30 GMT
With all of the negative talk going on here...It just makes me sad.
I had a blast playing with the new 6th edition rules today and everyone watching the game, was saying things like "Tyranids are going to be top tier", "That's OP"
Now I've been around long enough to know that it's just talk... but all of the other armies were piling out of their vehicles because they felt they were "useless" now and bringing army lists with lots of infantry.
If there is one thing I know, it's that there is no finer "Anti-Infantry" Army out there than Tyranids. And if my one and only win against DE came with the Dawn of 6th Edition... then I welcome it!
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Post by coredump on Jun 30, 2012 18:38:08 GMT
And that is key. If other armies stop using vehicles, then even with a lot of nerf, we are better off.
Imagine, instead of having to take HGuard for transports, you can take Yealers to rip into their walking infantry.
Now, vehicles may not disappear, but we really need to see how the meta develops.
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ikken
Genestealer
Posts: 97
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Post by ikken on Jun 30, 2012 19:04:09 GMT
i think i will hold judgment until i can play test the new rules .
my biggest problem with nids was all those metal boxes out there . i think that will change , so while the FAQ might not fix the deficiencies in our dex, 6th edition metta game i think will shift in out favor . .
25% cover will help a lot , ID broodlords will make GS scarey , just need to infiltrate them instead of out flanking them , but they have protection as long as they are out of LOS .
carnifex squads will be more survivable , and no fearless wounds . we can tarpit units with cheep or free gaunts effectively now .
my bet is that i will loose fewer models to snap fire than i ever did to fearless wounds .
plus the mission types have changes to them which are much more capture and control orientated than b4 which i think benefits us .In addition i think the meta game will change in our favor .
I think other armies are going to move much more to a gun-line/ shooty formula which in an odd way can benefit us . units still can't shoot when they are engaged in cc ( which means they can't snap shot ) , and you can't target units that are in cc .
sacrifice a few gaunt squads ( that what gaunts are for ) out front to provide cover and when they hit enemy lines , throw them into cc . when the rest of your army hits they will engage units already tied up with fodder that can't snap shoot them . hormagaunts got a boost with rage , you can send these guys out front and scare anything out there , snap shot will kill a few on the charge in , but on the whole the rage effect will make up for the losses .
i think the onion strategy will work well in 6th .
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Post by Soluncreed on Jun 30, 2012 19:21:46 GMT
Well thats all pretty meh. I've only taken a quick look but it might even be a bit more of a nerf...: Swarmlord/Tyrants & Tyrant Guard now = 2KPs Confirmation we pretty much dont get terrain pieces (or at least we cant use weapons in them). Psychic Mastery Levels aren't great...(I was expecting Tyrant and Swarmlord to be higher TBH). Lash Whip changes are a bit stupid - essentially looks like GW cant make their mind up so 4+ it... Since the FAQ uses effected raher than affected, is that incorrect grammar making the point moot? Grammar is important. I'm saying this in regards to lashwhips. |
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Post by ZergLord on Jun 30, 2012 19:27:48 GMT
Me too. Especially since almost nobody actually gave Nids a chance and played with them. People just sit there reading the rules, and whine.
After reading the rules, I'm a bit optimistic for the Nids in 6th Ed. The 2 main reasons are:
1. Vehicles are really easy to hit in CC;
2. Vehicles can be glanced to death.
Having vehicles nerfed in a such way really really helps IMO, since transports were Nids n1 problem since 5th Ed. I think we'll going to see more Rhinos and less Razorbacks, and overall less transports.
Rhinos and Razorbacks are easy to destroy now, since you can glance them to death in both CC and by shooting just by spamming attacks and shots. If you face MSU, your opponent could loose a lot of Razorbacks really fast, which means loosing a lot of firepower in a short timespan; and you can't tell me that 5 guys with a Meltagun who drop from it can make a huge difference.
It just seems more reasonable to invest in a "standard" 10 man squad with a Powerfist instead of having only 5 guys in a very fragile vehicle. Or I could be wrong.
Also, am I the only one who thinks that Gargoyles and Raveners are awesome? They are FAST. Raveners move 12", ignore Difficult and Dangerous Terrain, and have Fleet. Gargoyles are even faster than they were in the 5th Ed. Gargs with AG now threaten everything, not just infantry. My Shrikes have been buffed too.
Also, we can spam psykers. I might be wrong but I don't think that there's an army other than GKs which can have more psykers than us. Oh, and speaking of psy powers, Psychic Hood has been nerfed so there's almost nothing stopping us from buffing our units.
I've heard from a guy somewhere that we'll be seeing Tyranid rush lists a lot, and after seeing changes to our FA units I gotta agree. They just seem like an auto include to me now.
Now, I think it's silly to think that Nids are gonna be top tier as some people think, but I think we'll be OK.
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Post by fleetofclaw on Jun 30, 2012 19:48:03 GMT
let me get this straight, they turned us in to a garbage shooting army backed up by flying stuff? all foot slogging CC choices are junk? This is the first edition that players aren't going to be afraid of genestealers? CC Carnifex is more junk then ever? Do they realize it's impossible to score a destroyed with a VC and HVC now (AP4 and -1 to chart) and we'll have to Hull Point vehicles to death with them?
whatever.
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