Pre-Hersey Nids?

[gloomfang]

People are talking about a WH30K set of minis and books from Forgeworld and it makes me a bit sad becasue, with a few rare exceptions Tyranids didn't show up until well after the Heresy. Still holding out hope, but anyone else think of pre-Behemoth Tyranids?


Nids in the fluff?

So far I can only think of the following:
Zoats (and that is only hinted at in the fluff right up till they alll got killed)
Ymgarl genestealers
Catachan Devil
Kraken
Ambull??? Maybe not sure on this one...

I know they talk about early splinter fleets and that most of the death worlds are partially bioformed Tyranid planets. Can't think of any other creatures that they talk about though.

[Overread]

Don't forget genestealer cults. Also I'm fairly sure that the catachan Devil and the Kraken are only rumoured to be possible tyranid creatures and that we never get a firm answer on if they are or are not. They are mostly just really violent and deadly beasts that are either scounts or very juicy creatures for nids to adapt into themselves.


That said nids have been in things for a while, but were just not that much around then. You'll get the genestealer cults, maybe zoats, maybe some lictors. But in general there won't be many beasties.

[greatescape13]

I think of the very first Horus Heresy book--with the invasion of the planet with the giant steel spiders that bonds the Sons of Horus with the Emperor's Children. Yeah, they were not actually tyranids, but 'Nids would work just fine IMO.

Warhammer 30k was full of planets teeming with odd aliens that needed to be put down, so Tyranids would work just fine for any one-off game against a pre-heresy army in my opinion.

The FW supplements will be like the Badab War ones--Marines are the best-sellers, so it will be a system to get more marine-versus-marine combat enjoyment. Sure, the campaign in the books won't be playable by 'Nids, but that shouldn't be some reason to fret. If you like campaigns, do a 'Nid vs. campaign. If you like the Heresy, paint some marines.

Cheers.

[gloomfang]

Jun 12, 2012 14:55:27 GMT Overread said:

Don't forget genestealer cults. Also I'm fairly sure that the catachan Devil and the Kraken are only rumoured to be possible tyranid creatures and that we never get a firm answer on if they are or are not.

If they give me back genestealer cults I will do the happy claw dance of joy ala Zoidburg.

And the 4th Ed. codex had a section that said that the Kraken and Devil had Tyranid DNA from what I remember. I will have to look it up tonight.

[Geneva]

Jun 12, 2012 15:03:50 GMT gloomfang said:

And the 4th Ed. codex had a section that said that the Kraken and Devil had Tyranid DNA from what I remember. I will have to look it up tonight.

Those were from the section on Kryptman's notes. The idea is that they were the speculations of the Ordo Xenos Inquisitor and some other Magus Biologus.

[Overread]

Jun 12, 2012 20:09:35 GMT Geneva said:

Jun 12, 2012 15:03:50 GMT gloomfang said:

And the 4th Ed. codex had a section that said that the Kraken and Devil had Tyranid DNA from what I remember. I will have to look it up tonight.

Those were from the section on Kryptman's notes. The idea is that they were the speculations of the Ordo Xenos Inquisitor and some other Magus Biologus.

I can't recall the names- but yes the 4thed codex was one written about bugs from a Marine point of view, so there is easily some scope for those theories being right and wrong.

Now I recall it I think one theory was that the devil and the kracken might have been the remnants of a prior scouting force; but (for whatever reason) had slipped into wild habbits being too far from the Hive fleet. In short they wound up regular wild animals - accounting for part Nid genetics mixed with a slew of newer ones as the creatures evolved normally).

[housecawdor]

Didn't the space wolves 'kraken's egg' hatch into a tyranid like organism?

[Davor]

Well after 10 000 years, you can imagine alot of information was gone/delete/lost or what ever. So who is to say there wasn't some big Tyranid intervention in the HH, but the history was changed from the Victors so no mention was ever mentioned of Tyranid.

Maybe they were not mentioned because the info was lost.
Maybe they couldn't comprehend what a Tyranid was at the time? Maybe they thought it was Chaos.
Maybe they were only on the outer Rims so the info never got to where it was suppose to go?

So many exucses as to why any Non SM can still be in the HH but were never noted.

[Overread]

Considering how even one single Hive ship can basically decimate its way into the Galaxy I think the Imperium would notice a full on nid invasion - even if it was just a loan Hive ship (and a hive ship unopposed would just grow and grow in power and numbers).

I think genestealer cults, loan scouts and exploratory units would be the only way you could have Nids. Even then it really leans toward having very few actual units on the table for them - though a genestealer cult could basically operate like a chaos corrupted Imperial Guard force - just with only body modifications on the people and very little change to the tanks.

[Bot]

Jun 12, 2012 23:59:23 GMT Overread said:

Considering how even one single Hive ship can basically decimate its way into the Galaxy I think the Imperium would notice a full on nid invasion - even if it was just a loan Hive ship (and a hive ship unopposed would just grow and grow in power and numbers).

Sure, but some must have got past the eyes of the imperium... I mean, How else could you explain Ymgarls and Various Genstealer cults. Some were there far before Behemoth entered the system.

But perhaps they were not Hive ships at all of course. Perhaps it was just some vanguard ships with the purpose of infecting worlds with genestealers... I don't know. ^^

[WestRider]

There's also the possibility of other Hive Fleets (or at least solo scouting Hive Ships) that ended up doing something similar to Hive Fleet Naga: plenty of damage, but since none of it was done to Imperial Worlds*, it didn't end up in the Records.

*Or at least there were no survivors from Imperial Worlds ;D

[captainbirdbum]

surely fw would make a bucket load of money by doing stealer cults. plus megarachnids would be awesome

[Overread]

Hmm I don't know - has Forgeworld ever done a full army?
I know they do a few for specialist ranges and they make army mods (like marine shoulder pads) and their armour listings for IG are pretty much a whole armoured group. But its always been a site for the specialists and for the one-off big models.

It's never really been marketed half as strong as the main GW products get - so they'd have to really open up marketing a lot more (esp to new people) to build a whole new game and market it out. Plus they'd need to market heavily because, at the moment, Forgeworld is always seen as "good and very expensive"

[jinx]

the Megarachnids are tyranids as far as i know,sure they have 8 legs but not all nids are alike,the Megarachnids got put on planet Murder because they 'devoured whole worlds and when they got beaten they got imprissoned',sounds like nids to me

[WestRider]

Jun 13, 2012 17:17:37 GMT Overread said:

Hmm I don't know - has Forgeworld ever done a full army?
I know they do a few for specialist ranges and they make army mods (like marine shoulder pads) and their armour listings for IG are pretty much a whole armoured group. But its always been a site for the specialists and for the one-off big models.

Several: Death Korps of Krieg, Chaos Renegades, and Elysian Drop Troopers each had full Army ranges from Forge World at one point, tho some of the worse-selling options may have been dropped.

They don't do full Marine Armies because Conversion Packs are so much easier and the basic Marine Kits are versatile enough that nothing more is needed.

Altho actually, now I think of it, the "Warhammer 30K" Marine stuff may be approaching the point of covering most of the Dex.