powy
Ripper
I always roll 1
Posts: 5
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Post by powy on May 21, 2012 19:42:16 GMT
Hi everyone, i'm new to the Warhammer tabletop game and the wargame thing in general, and after a couple games i badly need some advices. I chose Tyranids because they are basically the only race i really like in the game, and the only thing i knew about them i learned in Dawn of War 2. In short, it seems i still have to get the handle of how they work. I actually have: 28 Hormagaunts (half with spine and half with devourer) 28 Termagaunts 3 Warriors 1 Hive Tyrant 1 Carnifex 3 Rippers 2 Hive Guards 8 Genestealers 1 Trygon, still in the box (i think i'm gonna play him as a Prime since i need another synapse creature). I have problems dealing with space marines in general, and especially with the Blood Angel Death Company. In one game they assaulted and annhiliated a squad of 20 gaunts (with both AG and TS), so in the last one, having to keep them off me i threw the rippers onward. It worked for a couple turns, but then they proceeded to smash my Carnifex (2xSchyting Talons, AC, Bioplasm) in a single turn with only two casualties. Same thing happened another time with my Hive Tyrant. With no invulnerable saves and so many of them i don't know to deal with their powered weapons. Also, i don't know how to use my gaunts. Which units should they attack? How many should i put in a single unit (i usually go for two units of them that run near) and which upgrades should i get? Last questions are about the rules: the codex states that hive guards can shoot even if they don't have los to the enemy, so it's correct if i shoot trough walls, right? If i decide to keep the stealers in reserve and they enter with the infiltration rule, can they enter right behind an enemy unit or should they follow the 12" or 18" if in los like in the initial deploy (we're actually doing the latter, but would be cool to put them right in the back of a squad)? I think that's most of it. Thanks in advance for any reply, and i apologize for any grammar error, still trying to learn the language. Cheers  . |
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Post by Hive Fleet Cthulhu on May 21, 2012 19:57:23 GMT
The most important rule to remember is: Be points effective. For example, a fex is quite pricey, sure he is good to bring to a fun game. But if you plan on winning, I'd leave him at home. Stealers are great, but they are the glass hammer. I use this term due to being so pricey. Especially if you want them built for maximum pain. ex: Broodlord, talons, TS (like mine, lol). A tyrant is a great unit as well... but once again very points heavy. I wouldn't bring him to a game that is under 1000 points. Hormagaunts are one of my favorite troops. Fast, and cheap. I almost ALWAYS bring them. And I ALWAYS give them toxin sacs. The only time I bring termagaunts is when I want to bring a tervigon, or am playing a game for fun. Hive guard you can almost never go wrong with. 50 points, decent range, ignore cover, doesn't need line of site, 2 shots, ap 4, strength 8. And the trygon, once again is very price. Leave him for bigger games. As for upgrades... here is what I recommend.
Tyrant= paroxysm, old adversary, bonesword/whip, leech essence, armored shell, x2 tyrant guard, TL;Devourers. As I stated before, the tyrant is pricey. This one set up costs 370 points
Genestealers= toxin sacs, talons. coming in at 19 points a model it can be pricey, but I find that they make up for the cost in the end. Re-roll 1's and generally re-rolling all to wound. This means more rending.
Trygon= Prime, and adrenal glands. Prime gives synapse... which is ALWAYS good. And adrenal glands are well... awesome. Furious Charge, baby!
Hormagaunts= Toxin sacs. Can't go wrong. 8 points a model.
Now, warriors, I haven't brought up yet... but they CAN be good, depending on the size of game. They do not have eternal warrior anymore, so they WILL be insta-killed by anything strength 8 or higher weapon, or a powerfist.
But the most important thing I can say is. Don't be discouraged if you lose, learn your army, and enjoy the game. Good luck.
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Post by jinx on May 21, 2012 20:09:35 GMT
a counter to Death company spam? take this from a blood angels player,Death Company got Rage which means that they have to move at the closest targets,keep your termagants unupgraded,get a Venomthrope,put the Termagants infront of all your other stuff with the venomthrope right behind it,then your gaunts got G-nades and death company gotta take a dangerous terrain test,once they charged the terma's,try to hold them up and then countercharge with better units (hive tyrant or so,in which case Lashwhip will be handy),
he'll struggle then,also if you can afford a Tervigon,cast FnP on the terma's,they'll hold out for sure then,after his DC are gone he's lost quite some points (175 at least if they got JP) and you can move on to the next group and so on,don't forget to move forward yourself
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Post by Davor on May 22, 2012 1:09:34 GMT
I was going to say what Jinx said, get a Tervigon to cast FnP on them. Also put TS or what not on the Tervigon so your gaunts will also benifit from them isntead of upgrading the Termagants. Mind you I suck at 40K and it hasn't worked for me, but I see it has worked for other people who know what they are doing. How about a brood of 30 gargoyles? For me they were a blast. I used "counts as" to see ow they work, and it worked good for me in a game. Was fun. I play for fun, not to win, so maybe that is why I am so bad at 40K.  |
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Post by infornography on May 22, 2012 3:50:42 GMT
Tervigons are my favorite answer to marines. Just keep assaulting them with your free termagant units.
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Post by Lanesend on May 22, 2012 9:03:37 GMT
Hey Powy, I just read your post and I think you got the infiltration-rule wrong.
Units with infiltration can deploy as follows: Either normally, with the rest of your army. Or they can infiltrate, after normal deployment, but before the first turn (outside 12" out of LOS or outside 18" with LOS).
Alternativly, you can reserve them. Then you have the option to either walk onto the board from your own table edge (you almost never use this option with stealers), or use outflanking.
This is an ability to come in from the short table-edges. It is granted by the infiltration-rule or the scout-rule, but it is not the same kind of deployment!
Now for the other questions. You had some difficulty with gaunts charging a death company unit. That is logical, to be honest. You are using a 140 point unit to attack a unit that costs twice as many points!
Now if you can give those gaunts support from a Tervigon / Hive Tyrant / Venomthrope, they will get a lot more killy.
Now for that carnifex. It is a great tank- killer, with str 9 or 10 and Monsterous Creature status. But it doesn't have enough attacks to go against a decent infantery unit on it's own. You should try to steer it away from such assaults.
If you want a Monsterous creature that is good against infantery AND tanks, go for a Trygon with Adrenalin Glands.
Hope that helps a bit
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Post by avsimone on May 22, 2012 15:04:12 GMT
I know that this is a little unrelated but rippers are really good at assault stalling. If you send them in against a tank killer like a wraithlord, Dreadnought, or hey even another carnifex they can continuously stay in assault, (avoiding blast templates) and because of the amount of wounds they can keep it stalled for a long time. the death company has a lot of attacks which might be why your ripers got, well, ripped. they are a little innefficient. but not bad. they allow your bigger units to go to bigger targets.
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powy
Ripper
I always roll 1
Posts: 5
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Post by powy on May 22, 2012 17:40:07 GMT
Thanks everyone, i'm taking notes. I didn't mention it in my first post, but i have a Tervigon and another squad of Warrior coming, which will be my last purchases for quite a time i think. Reading all your replies, it seems the Tervigon was a good choice. Now, if only that package would come... Units with infiltration can deploy as follows: Either normally, with the rest of your army. Or they can infiltrate, after normal deployment, but before the first turn (outside 12" out of LOS or outside 18" with LOS). Alternativly, you can reserve them. Then you have the option to either walk onto the board from your own table edge (you almost never use this option with stealers), or use outflanking. This is an ability to come in from the short table-edges. It is granted by the infiltration-rule or the scout-rule, but it is not the same kind of deployment! Yup sorry, i wasn't clear. It's really the outflank rule i don't understand, the book says to roll to determine from which side the unit can deploy and then to "follow the deployment rules" (or something like that). So i don't get if when outflanking i can put them right next to an enemy unit (like i don't know, a tactical squad 11" from the left side) or i still have to keep my 12"/18" from them. Also, with the units i have, is it worth to make my next three warriors as shrikes? Yes, i still have to try the Trigon, but in my games o felt the lack of jump infantry and i suppose they would be a hassle for all those tactical squads my friends keep in the back. |
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Post by nurglitch on May 22, 2012 18:29:29 GMT
Outflanking is like any move onto the board from reserves, or on the first turn in Dawn of War. Basically you measure the unit's movement from the edge of the board. In the case of outflanking you get to measure from a short edge. Meaning that anything within 12" of that short edge of the board can be charged, difficult terrain notwithstanding.
The risk, of course, is that your Genestealers may come in from the wrong edge, or too late in the game to do anything besides kill an enemy unit and die, particularly if you put lots of eggs in your reserves basket without increasing the likelihood of reserves, or the likelihood of a favourable table edge.
Once your opponent realizes that your Genstealers can threaten a charge on anything within 18" of a board edge, you can start to play a strategy of encouraging your opponent to voluntarily shrink their deployment zone or risk feeding you a free unit.
I think you're better off using a unit of Warriors as a unit of Warriors equipped with a Venom Cannon or Barbed Stranger to stand-off any Tactical squads that may be hiding at the back of their deployment zone. If you can pin them with a Barbed Strangler, then the outflanking Genestealers won't get the I1 penalty for charging the pinned unit in cover.
Alternately, consider re-building them as Biovores for the same reason and 3x the number of large blasts.
The problem with building Tyranid Warriors as Shrikes is that it's difficult to cram the two weapon options, wings, and hind legs into the hexapedal Tyranid frame. I used plastic Warrior torsos, plastic Ravener tails, finecast boneswords & lashwhips, and forgeworld Warrior wings, and to a degree it works. But not everybody is willing to spend that much on such a fragile unit (admittedly I used the spare parts of build units of Hive Guard, but still expensive).
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Post by TheContortionist on May 23, 2012 1:24:26 GMT
so you can put genestealers 12 inches when you outflank and still run them? where are the rules for this? i've only been putting them in 6 and running them. thank you.
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Post by Bot on May 23, 2012 8:35:37 GMT
so you can put genestealers 12 inches when you outflank and still run them? where are the rules for this? i've only been putting them in 6 and running them. thank you. No. you move them in 6". In the shooting phase you can then run them D6" and in the Assault phase, you can charge 6". |
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Post by Inquisitor Stingray on May 24, 2012 22:39:43 GMT
Hey man, welcome to the Hive, to the game and to Tyranids!
I didn't really care to read the others guys advise, but I'm sure they are all sound and solid. I play a little Blood Angels myself and I'm curious as how your opponent fields them. If he gives them jump-packs he's spending an awful lot of points on them and if he walks them, you should be able to avoid them or tie them up with less powerful units, id est Rippers. In either case they (the DC) will be subject to the Rage-rule which allows you to play around with them a bit.
If however, and this is highly probable, he stuffs his big bad soldiers into a Rhino, avoiding/dealing with them becomes more tricky, especially since Blood Angels' Rhinos are faster than the usual Space Marine variant.
As for taking the powerarmoured vampires out, genestealers with Toxin Sacs are a fine choice. They'll strike first, preferably with a charge bonus and remember that their Rend will punch right through that pesky 3+ save as well as Feel No Pain.
Good luck!
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powy
Ripper
I always roll 1
Posts: 5
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Post by powy on May 26, 2012 12:32:58 GMT
Had another game yesterday. No Rhinos for now, we're all still praticing with low points armies and we usually play 2vs2 (3vs3 yesterday). I fared a little better fielding only my Tyrant (with hive commander), two ten hormagaunt squads and eight 'stealers. The gaunts glanced (is it the right therm?) a Razorwing, which the Tyrant procedeed then to destroy. The second squad of gaunt came frome the side and ripped a ten-man tactical squad, while the stealers sent Mephiston out of commission. I'm pretty satisfied, the gaunts even nearly killed the DE Lelith in two turns, but then the game ended. I still feel a little underpowered, but a little less depressed now , with a little work i can still do some damage! |
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