Space Marine questions

[coff]

So I borrowed my buddy's Space Marine Codex to make a list but I'm ripping my hair out over the Command Squad. It seems like every idea I have is undone but one small rule or another.

They can't have Jump Packs since even though the Specialists can have war gear from the Armory you need one extra member and he can't have war gear.

Terminator Command Squads can't have Close Combat weapons.

Terminator Command Squads have no specialists so in spite of the fact that Sacred Standard, Chapter Banner, and Holy Relics are all marked with the ^T that indicates a Terminator can carry them. They also all say Standard Bearer Only next to them and Terminators can't have Standard Bearers.

Terminators with Close Combat weapons could be joined by a Chaplain but then it would've been 6 models and wouldn't've fit in a Land Raider.

So I think that is everything I've thought of so far. Can anyone help me come up with a cool effective CC Marine Command Squad? Did I read a rule wrong? The one that really gets me is Standards being listed as Terminator war gear but their in ability to have Standard Bearers. Or maybe Space Marine CC Command Squads don't need to be fast to be effective and I just don't know it (I've probably been spoiled by Tyranids and Eldar)? Can someone help?

Also the friend who loaned me the codex wanted me to inquire about equipping Termis with Heavy Bolters and Dreads with TL Heavy Bolters or TL Plasma Cannons. It seems fine by me but what do I know. Can anyone see why this would be broken (aside from the obvious they aren't listed in the codex)? He's got points and they seem rounded up.

[coff]

Also, Can Independent Characters join another character's Command Squad? HERE Bryan Barnes makes not that he has left one spot open so that a Techmarine can be included. I seem to remember coming across a rule that made this impossible too but they clearly do it here. I'm wondering, could the samething be done with a Master's Command Squad by adding a Chaplain? What are the rules for that? Have you seen a Command Squad with all their eggs in one basket, so to speak?

[WestRider]

Huh. I thought there was an update in the FAQ that let Terminator Command Squads take Specialists, but I can't find it now. I don't think I've ever seen a Terminator Command Squad, actually, probably for just that reason.

I usually see them either in a Drop Pod or a Land Raider, or occasionally Infiltrating.

And yes, you can join a Character to another Character's Retinue/Command Squad. The rule that causes confusion here is that you can't just have two ICs join each other to make a Unit. However, as far as I can tell, there is no limit on how many ICs can join a regular Unit. Also, if you look at pg. 21 in the SM Dex, you can actually take a Chaplain as an add on to a Master's Squad without even taking up another HQ Choice!

[elysian]

In a tournament I once saw a Librarian joined onto an allied Deamon Hunters Brother-Craptain and his retuine. Double Force weapon and wikid h2h termies. Kinda off topic but it does have the h2h termies you were looking for

[coff]

Thanks guys! That thing about Chaplains joining pre-existing Command Squads without taking up another HQ slot is awesome. I totally missed that. As for the Daemon Hunters thing. It had occurred to me but I was trying to avoid adding Grey Knights even though they would kind of be CC terminators I'm looking for.

So now my options are: 1. dropping the Vindicare for Assault Terminators and having them drop in unaided by a sweet HQ, 2. keeping the Vindicare and having regular Terminator Command Squad with a Chaplain or Librarian.

Now I could do Librarian and give them some Assault Cannons and have them drop in shoot some stuff up before getting into cc or having the Chaplain and just dealing with the fact I don't get to have rerolling to wound and to hit while still having a decent cc squad. Personally I just like the idea of Chaplains more. Not to mention they look way cooler.

Can someone who knows Space Marines better than I explain the pros and cons of these options? If I drop the Vindicare for cc termies I can always throw a jetpack Chaplain in with the Assault Marines. I'm not worried about points yet. I'll figure that out with war gear and troops later.

[elysian]

Only thing I can say is Vindicares have almost never made their points back for my IG. When I took a GK termie squad they almost always took ass and kicked names. Vindys just look so badass.

[yoritomo]

I play CC terminators every now and then. I can tell you that deepstriking them usually isn't the best way to use them. You can't really count on them landing in a safe place because of scatter and since they can't assault they'll be sitting ducks.

If you're going to run CC termines then you really need to put them in some kind of land raider.

If you have the points you could run a vindicare with the machine spirit and extra armor. This setup will let your vindicare always move and shoot unless your opponent does permanent damage. It's pretty good until your opponent decides to focus his efforts on it.

As for my command squad I run a chaplain attached to an assault squad. That's up to 4 plasma pistols and 2 power weapons as well as a raft of regular attacks. It's good enough to deal with most things.

[Hive Fleet Phantom]

yoritomo said:

If you have the points you could run a vindicare with the machine spirit and extra armor. This setup will let your vindicare always move and shoot unless your opponent does permanent damage. It's pretty good until your opponent decides to focus his efforts on it.

I think they are talking about a vindicare assassin and not a vidicator. A vidicator with that setup is just mean though.

[Shas'o Tash'var Kais Pat]

Try a master or captain with twin lightning claws, a command squad with apothecary and champion plus sergeant with powerfist, a couple of extra marines with ccw and bolt pistol and give them all furious charge, then whack them in a rhino. Oh yeah, and add in a chaplain in larger games...you'll never look back...

[ErA | zoe)ender]

OK - good CC command squad - don't get one. There are much better things in the army that do there things better EG: assault marines with a jump chaplain, or terminators with a terminator Chaplin/Librarian. Personally I had no luck with a command squad OR a Commander. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Commanders suck, far from it. I'm just saying there are better things to invest on. What I currently use and find most effective is a Librarian and 7 Assault Terminators in a Land Raider Crusader. That's is the best combo, as a Land Raider is so tough so the Terminators may actually REACH combat, While the land raider turns everything that might be harmful (eg: dreadnaught) into a fine paste with its guns. It's mean!

[yoritomo]

I've often thought about the jump pack command squad. If you want to be evil (and spend a bunch of points) here's what you do:

By two characters with jump packs (one being a chaplain). Then take the minimum command squad of 5 men. 4 of those men get access to wargear, they all get jump packs. The one guy who can't get wargear gets a plasma gun.

Now, if your opponent shoot as your command squad then the first guy you kill is the plasma gunner. When he's dead then it's off to the races.

If your opponent decides (wisely) not to shoot your command squad then you rapid fire your plasma gun until he fries himself. Then it's off to the races.

It's evil because if your opponent will either leave your command squad unmolested or unleash a fast moving, close combat, death squad. Whatever he chooses he gets screwed.

But then again it's also ungodly expensive.

[ErA | zoe)ender]

Ya..... thats why you stick with assault squads. It MIGHT be expensive and very expensive, its nothing a squad of hormogaunts can clean up. 32 x 3 WS5 Str. 4 attacks anyone? thats HOW many armor saves?