5th Edition Rumours

[Aldair]

Here's some news.
www.scribd.com/doc/2321130/40k-rulebook-5th

That's a 5th edition rulebook. Not permanent but definitely close to it.

The new rending rule stands as any 6 on a to wound roll is an instant wound. For calculating strength against vehicles it's an additional D3 after rolling a 6 (so against a vehicle a Genestealer will never do damage to AV14 vehicles unless equipped with toxin sacs in which case a glancing hit is all you can do.)

Also, page 64 holds the new vehicle damage chart. It is now impossible for anything short of an AP1 weapon to destroy a vehicle on a glancing hit. Assuming the vehicle isn't open topped. However, that means vanilla genestealers will only ever be able to destroy AV12 vehicles without a horrendous amount of immobilizing and weapon destroyed rolls for AV13 vehicles.

There is no mention about when units assault vehicles they assault rear armor. So it will still be the armor value of the side you are assaulting.

Also, it is now possible to shoot through area terrain. So cover just lost a little bit of value. The unit being shot again gains a cover save (even if out in the open) if the shots pass through up to 2" of area terrain.

Pg 72 has the rules for ramming. I wouldn't suggest using transports to ram. Unless you're ramming a walker, that could prove interesting to watch.

NEW SPECIAL RULE: Eternal Warrior: Models with this rule are immune to Instant Death!

NEW SPECIAL RULE: Relentless: Models with this rule can move and use rapid-fire or heavy weapons and assault in the same turn. If they are attached to a unit without this rule the Relentless character must abide by normal assaulting rules. (ie. they can't assault if the unit used rapid-fire or heavy weapons or just can't assault for some other reason.)

NOTICE: Only TROOPS count as scoring units for the purposes of taking and holding control areas.

NEW MISSIONS: Covered on pages 87 and 88.

NEW DEEPSTRIKE RULES: If a unit can't be deployed normally (the unit would be off the board, in Impassable Terrain, or within 1" (on on) of enemy models then the player must roll for a Deepstrike Mishap. On a 1 the entire unit is destroyed and counts for full victory points. On a 2 or 3 the entire unit is destroyed but counts for only 50% victory points. On a 4,5 or 6, the unit comes down intact and may be placed anywhere on the table (including inside terrain but requires a dangerous terrain test) as long as the unit maintains normal deepstrike formation. In this occurrence there is no scatter.

RESERVES: If a Reserves unit has not deployed by turn 4 it will automatically come on the table at the start of turn 5.


Thus ends my highlights of the 5th edition rulebook.

[Psychichobo]

Hmm, Eternal Warrior isn't new, the Pheonix Lords and Daemon Princes have it. So why put it in the Big Rulebook...? Aw, please don't say we're going to see loads of other armies pulling out Instant Death Immunities!

[Aldair]

It isn't new? Hmmmm... it isn't in my mini-rulebook.

[Aux]

thanks

[Enigma]

I'm writing this as I go along

Whoah, this makes my deathspitters much more attractive.

Rending hasn't changed at all! Well, against infantry, and that can only be a good thing. Sure, it isn't as good against vechiles, but hey, we get to ignore that nasty 3+ save just as well!

Where the hell did the city ruin thingy come from!?

Dammit, the venom cannon can't do anything now. We have to rely on warp blasts to take out land raiders now.

Interesting, there are new obscured rules...

Ramming is... cool! It makes me want to get IG or SM so I have vechiles.

New missions, but now there are only 3. Recon takes place of the loot counter one, take and hold is somewhat like the old recon, and total annhialation is pretty much the same as annhialation with a couple of differences.

Wow, the way to organize a battle is so different!

New deepstrike rules are cool!

[Haraio [MALAL]]

Woot! Force Weapon causes Instant Death! Tyranids can finally survive Force Weapons!

[The Custodian]

Hmmm rending is just like fantasies killing blow now... (except killing blow instant kills) tyranids will still need an update especially for genestealers... Other than that Im not to fussed...

[Utah Jak]

My two cents:

1. Rending is ok. I think we'll be fine.
2. The Vehicle Chart is a huge blow to us. I may be a complete idiot, but it looks like Devil Fexes can/will be a bigger threat to most vehicles than our S10 Fex Venom Cannons!
3. Having Zoans being our only way to harm the heavies is not a good thing.

Hopefully, we'll recieve some form of update. Also, swarm armies are looking like they will be a force under these new rules.

[Aldair]

My opinion is there will be a Tyranid codex update because on page 34 the example for using initiative in cc states the Carnifex as having Initiative 2 instead of 1. Typo... maybe. But I don't think they would include the adrenal glands biomorph in a rule book example...

My other 2 cents:

For me Rending just got slaughtered. My friend plays with terminators and land raiders. The 5th edition rules would render all my genestealers useless against his tanks unless I sprung for the toxin sacs biomorph. Which I may end up doing. But I don't really want to.

I don't know what a Devilfex is but I do know that a Carnifex with scything talons, enhanced senses, and a venom cannon will do more damage to armor than most anything else we can field. That is because the VC is an assault X weapon. So, I would rather have 3 chances of immobilizing or destroying a weapon over 1 chance to blow the thing up.

And Zoanthropes just doubled their value as far as Warp Blast goes.


But we really do need something along the lines of an update since our most venerated unit (Genestealer) just had its efficiency cut and one of our better anti-tank weapons just got nerfed to all hell. Maybe not a full new codex but reduced point values would be very welcome.

[yoritomo]

These rules suck.

This is just a bad cut and paste job of the 4th ed rules. Most of this is just a different layout, not really worthy of a new edition in my opinion.

And all the stuff they changed doesn't really fix any of the problems that are in 4th ed. If fact it will probably lead to less variation between armies.

The new vehicle rules don't make vehicles worth playing. So don't expect to see any more vehicles. And with the new run rule you may even see less as transport vehicles become more optional.

I'd expect to see more people shelve the stealers because of the rending nerf. They just lost close to half their combat power with the change, and until they re-do the points for a stealer I think that leaping is better than rending. So I wouldn't be surprised to see more tyranids go nidzilla.

I just don't get a warm fuzzy feeling about the new rules.

[Aldair]

Yoritomo, I would sincerely appreciate it if you could PM your detailed thoughts of the new rules. Because I had a very similar reaction.

Also, I have given sincere thought to running a Tau army when 5th edition comes out. Mainly because I don't have the resources to field a Nidzilla army and a Swarm army just became impracticable. Though I do not understand why there would be less vehicles than before?

Oh, never mind. "Vehicles that move up to 6" may fire a single weapon"... How STUPID can you get?

[Hive Fleet Green Locust]

1 thing that no one has mentioned is that the Prefered enemy rule is now re-roll all hits. Since stealer hit most things on 3+ and feeding tendrils are only 1 pt, I see tendril 'stealers as better then current ones. Even with the rending "nerf" (which is really isn't that bad), 'stealers are still worth the points. Especially since tendrils convey the ability within 2".

I, for one, love the simplifications in this set. 1 vehicle chart, all blasts hit the same and no more partials. 1 thing that particularly interests me is that you have to allocate wounds before taking saves. Meaning that Marines get nerfed a little more than other armies and I like that. It is possible to take out that hidden powerfist, heavy bolter or las cannon without having to spend units trying to wipe out thier squad.

At first, I thought that the run rule was a slap in the face to units that can fleet, but it actually helps us. Units that run can't shoot OR assault. So if units want to run away, so be it. Most 'Nids fleet, so we can charge the units that chose to shoot at us.

Run also makes us faster. Zoans and Warriors can now keep up with Guants. CC Fexes can get across the field a turn or 2 faster (though they need to not run on the turn they want to charge).

I have to say I like everything save 1 change. Defensive weapons on vehicles only str 4 or lower. I play mech Eldar and though I refuse to be as cheap as running 3 Falcons (usually running only 2 or 2 Fire Prisms), what I equip them with is totally dependent on Def. weapons being str 6.

My Prisms and Serpents aren't really effected as they only have 1 main weapon and I rarely upgrade their shuricats (S4) to shuricannons (S6). However my Falcons and Vypers are crushed be this. I run Vypers with double shuricannons and that can put out 6 S6 shots. I now have to change my weapon, because now I can only fire 1 shuricannon a turn (only 3 shots). Luckily putting scatter lasers are the same cost as double shuricannons. Only 4 shots, but 12" more range is a decent trade off.

My Falcons however have to take a second weapon. Since thier Pulse Laser is str 8 and every weapon choice is str 6 or more, My Falcons fire power has been halved. It wasn't enough to make Falcons no longer score or that moving up to 12" is no longer an auto-glance, GW feels the need to make Falcons only good as glorified transports.

Well that's enough of my ranting. I'm sure I'll figure out what to do with my Falcons.

[WestRider]

OK, finally got around to flipping through this. This is the same version of the PDF that's been floating around since late last year. Most versions are titled something along the lines of "5th Ed Playtest, July 2007" There are at least a couple of things that have definitely changed (as in, Jervis or another senior Dev Team member has said something quite different about how the rule will work while speaking on the subject at recent official GW events) since this got leaked, and many more that are probably different, but not confirmed.

[Hive Fleet Green Locust]

Well I hope that much of this leak remains and what does change isn't too far from 4th ed. I like 4th ed. and only want a streamlining of it rather than a new set

[WestRider]

The biggest difference that I remember is that LoS is not so severely blocked. You can shoot through enemy or friendly units, but if you do so, the target unit gains a 4+ Cover Save to represent teh difficulty of picking them out from the surrounding units/not hitting your own troops.

I think the vehicle nerf is supposed to be not quite so extreme anymore either, and then there were a bunch of little things.