5th Edition Rumours

[Rampage]

**Please note that on page 29 The Hive Mind starts to answer questions about the new rules, as he has read the new rule book, all 294 pages, this can be your clarification.**

Please pardon me if this has been posted on before. I searched, but didn't find anythign related...

So... a list of Rumours in regards to the new edition. Might not be entirely true, buuut...

Originally Posted by Brimstone on Warseer:

5th Edition Rumour roundup

‘5th’ edition 40K is due for release in 2008 although we have conflicting reports about the release date, it’s going to be either summer or more probably autumn (GDUK 08).

There will be a new rulebook and new starter set which will be Orks vs marines, it will include both troops and vehicles (a marine dreadnought is likely and possibly others). The 3up grot seen at UKGD ’07 is also for the starter box.

Rumoured rules amendments

1. the addition of a ‘run’ option (similar to fleet but with a trade off to keep fleet special).
2. Improvements to the cover save rules.
3. Rending toned down (auto wound if you roll a 6 to wound & reduction in effectiveness against vehicles).
4. Template(Blast) weapons rules streamlined.
5. Sniper weapons rules amended (rending probable)
6. Close combat rules amended with a combat resolution phase similar to fantasy
7. Single vehicle damage table.
8. Vehicles without a WS always get hit in the rear armour.
9. Vehicles able to ram
10. Other vehicle amendments
11. Mission rules changed in a similar manner to Apocalypse (no more Alpha, Gamma or Omega).
12. Only non vehicle non swarm troop choices are scoring units.
13. Vehicles types are adjusted (the rumoured skimmer nerf)

Overall the ruleset hasn’t changed dramatically but areas have been clarified, streamlined and in some cases brought closer to 2nd edition.

I’ll add to the list as we hear more. Don’t forget these are rumours and should not be treated as the truth.

Notice #3...

So, are Genestealers now going to be a horrifically expensive joke...?

[Overread]

I can't find it now, but we did have a long debate about this in the past; rough results:

its a pain
even if it does change, we still have to use our rending as it is our answer to heavy armour - our guns are too few and too inaccurate to be reliable in killing
we expect that a resonce to this in a new codex will take this chance into acount and
1) reduce the cost of our rending units - the stealer
2) give us a special excuse not to take this penalty - like tyranid rending or something

the latter is because it was us - the nids - who origanly had rending; then in the most recent additions, every army seems to be getting it and on weapons like autoguns it is proving to powerful -- thus the reduction in power

[shiro]

8. Vehicles without a WS always get hit in the rear armour.

Remember that this only applies for CC attacks. It will make tank busting a little easier for assault heavy armies, especially nids.

12. Only non vehicle non swarm troop choices are scoring units.

This particular point will have quite a bit of impact provided the standard mission design isn't substantially altered.

[Pheonix]

this list is just some moron griping aboutthe things he thinks are broken in 40k... and they are not... they may be confusing but if played properly they work well with the system... a rule change of that severity would need an entire rerelease of all codicies and a mass rerelease of models and considering the proximity to the release of some codicies that STILL are not fixed... i seriously doubt this (please do not swear) to be close to real... just ignore rumors...

[Shas'o Tash'var Kais Pat]

I agree, it seems a bit close to the release of last edition still...wait...was that really 3 years ago already? even so, it'll probably be another year or two before we get a fifth edition.

[Agi]

the new ork codex (out in UK) is very over powered !

[ZergLord]

agi said:

the new ork codex (out in UK) is very over powered !

So?... We're not talking about that.

I look forward to that run option. It will make CC fexes and Broodlord faster.

[Agi]

oooh sorry

i just saw the new starter set and Space Marines, Orks ect...

sorry

[kronoflex]

What is the "rumored Skimmer Nerf"?

[shiro]

I don't think the specifics of a nerf to skimmers has been released, which is not surprising given the supreme lack of substance to the current rumors.

[christars]

I find that point 3:

3. Rending toned down (auto wound if you roll a 6 to wound & reduction in effectiveness against vehicles).

and point 5:

5. Sniper weapons rules amended (rending probable)

slightly contrast. If snipers already wound on a 4+, OR AT LEAST 6 against Gargantuans, then what's the point to making them the "new" rending which anyway just wounds on a 6?

I feel slightly confused. Are these rumors actually coherently put together, or are they just a mix of different things different sources of higher or lower degrees of trustworthyness have said?

[Overread]

more rumours - these ones are more solid:
forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=171111

in general I have heard a lot about the rending tone down rumour and all I can say is as I have done before;
give us a special rending bonus or make our renderers cheaper

[Psychichobo]

Hmm... Ok, a few thoughts here...

That rending tonedown isn't as severe as I thought they might make it (I kept having that horrible image in my head of a rending that wounded on a 6 to hit, but allowed armour saves...) at least this one will still let us bypass armour saves. I personally don't see it as overpowered, but that's been discussed in another thread. However, that bit about auto-glancing vehicles suddenly means that the Necron Monolith is going to be a lot less intimidating to us Nids, especially if the skimmers rules get nerfed. But what also seems odd about this is that now rending... is completely pointless on our Monstrous Creatures. It barely had any use before, but now it seems irrelevant, except maybe against vehicles.

The vehicle rear armour rule is suddenly nice though, for Hormagaunts this is heavenly.

I agree with Christars - sniper rifles with rending? That's a bit much, suddenly our fexes have to walk about in constant fear of a little man with a rifle. I'm starting up Kroot, and one of their heavy support options is to heavy 5-10 Kroot Snipers. They'd be a bit too good then, wouldn't they?

No Alpha, Gamma, Omega etc suddenly means that Without Number becomes completely useless - at least when there was no Victory points it became useful. I'm not sure what Apoc's rules are, so correct me on this one if I'm wrong.

Number 12 - none vehicle, none swarm troop choice are the only scorers. So... does that mean you get victory points for only killing them? Or that any other unit choice can't take table quarters? That's a bit vague, but it sounds like a weird setup...

And that marching thing... well, that means Genestealers can move anything up to 24 inches to attack (maybe that's to compensate for the rending?), Hormagaunts can potentially make 30 inches and Gargoyles are capable of shooting targets 36 inches away. It does completely throw our tactics around, and I can't tell whether we'll end up too strong or too weak. Genestealers lose good rending, but now Carnifexes can move a lot more than they used to, so the CC fex will be doing a lot more...

I dunno what to make of all this. Correct me if I'm wrong on any of these points, though, cause right now I'm very confused.

EDIT: Ok, just realised the fex isn't classed as infantry (I think), so that'd mean the CC fex will never get into any fights...

[TheRipperfex]

I'd like to see a vehicle system where however much higher you roll then their armour, you add that to the current glancing system, so say a charging fex gets a 14 penetrating a rhino (AV 12?), it gets +2 to it's roll so it's chart would look like the current penetrating hit table.

ALSO, END TO ONLY GLANCING HITS FROM VENOM CANNONS???


The rending nerf isn't THAT bad, one of our stealer's attacks will go from killing about 1/4 of a SM to killing about 1/5 of a SM. So our stealers with ST post nerf would have about as much killing power as a normal stealer pre nerf.


EDIT: This is actually potentially devastating, rending got nerfed, everyone but us got a speed boost (well, our rippers are now slightly faster ) and tanks will potentially be tougher!

Come on Phil Kelly, don't let us be nerfed into oblivion.

[Overread]

the way I see it, every other army can deal with heavy armour with guns and other attacks. We cannot; our guns can shake tanks, and sometimes draw a kill, but the quality of our aim is such that we cannot rely on this. Our hords of lower level creatures can hold an army at bay - note the hold - its holding more than killing - overtime they can kil; but rending warrios, raveners, lictors, and genestealers contain the punch in most armies. The punch that the enemy fears - lower this punch as we significantly weaken as an army. Boosting us with guns will take away what the nids are all about - I am willing to scrifice my screamer killers for dakkafexes - but lets not get to the point where I have to take nearly all shooty just to be basic.
irrigardless, we are also forced to keep our existing tactices as well - a rending nerf will not stop us using it, but will require changes (price of stealers ) for us to remain true to our roots -