5th Edition Rumours

[ZergLord]

eatthisshoe said:

Also nidzilla takes a pretty big hit since only troops choices are scoring now. At least we've still got gaunts.

I think that by making only troops scoring units, GW wants to reduce cheesiness. People wont take 9 obliterators, 3 tanks, 6 Carnies, 3 Harli units, etc. anymore, and start spending more points on troops.

[sewerstalker]

Well, i think my idea for a genestealer army is gonna get thrown out the window. Although i love the models, they just aren't going to be compeditive anymore unless their points cost is reduced. Having fun playing the game and building the models is one thing, but i would at least like to win the occasional game too.
Maybe i should start up a 3rd army.

[pugbeast]

Lads calm down can we worry about this when it happens

[Enigma]

OH NOEZ WE IS ALL DEADZ!!! come on it isn't the end of the world. Who noez, Krakenfiend could be right. We could all be the victims of one huge prank.

[eatthisshoe]

zerglord said:

eatthisshoe said:

Also nidzilla takes a pretty big hit since only troops choices are scoring now. At least we've still got gaunts.

I think that by making only troops scoring units, GW wants to reduce cheesiness. People wont take 9 obliterators, 3 tanks, 6 Carnies, 3 Harli units, etc. anymore, and start spending more points on troops.

Yes, definitely. When you hear someone crying cheese it is usually about an army which takes three of some unit which is already powerful.

But tyranids are going to be hurting a bit now. Venom cannons can no-longer destroy vehicles without first destroying all of their weapons and immobilizing them. And Dakkafexes have -1 to the table, which basically makes penetrating hits act like glances in 4th edition (destroyed on a 6 only) and glances will require a 6 to destroy a weapon! Add to that rending now only adds D3 extra ap when you roll a 6, so we can't hurt AV14 at all, and AV13 is now four times harder to hurt at all, and it will be only a glance.

So tyranids have only one decent anti-tank option: Warp Blast.

CC TMCs are okay, but only if they aren't hitting on 6s, so never against skimmers.

If we are lucky though players will be running more infantry. With only troops being scoring and winning by objectives superseding wins by VPs. Basically the new tyranid tactic is going to be to hose the opponent's infantry kill their scoring units and ignore their tanks. And also hoping the opponent didn't mount scoring units inside land raiders.

[TheRipperfex]

Major changes I saw after a quick scim-through of the PDF I found:

-rending nerf
-everyone gets a weaker fleet, fleet remains the same
-tanks become TOUGHER to kill
-missions became more simple
-twin-linked rerolls wounds instead of to-hit now (how will TL devourers work?).
-blast weapons auto hit (in conjunction with the last one, this could be good for warriors /w deathspitters)

This makes me sad.

Although that was only a quick skim-through, I'll definatly examin it in more detail when it's not the night before I have exams 3 days in a row.

EDIT: WILL THIS BE THE BEGINING OF TL BARBED STRANGLERS THAT AUTO HIT AND REROLL WOUNDS?!?!

EDIT EDIT: whoops, misread the twinlinking thingy.

[shiro]

The spelling mistakes in the leaked PDF made me smile

The changes mostly sound good, particularly the emphasis on troops rather then elite/heavy choices, and considerably more focus placed on terrain and combat resolutions. Bringing the game more in line with WFB is certainly a good approach.

[ZergLord]

theripperfex said:

-twin-linked rerolls wounds instead of to-hit now (how will TL devourers work?).

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

theripperfex said:

WILL THIS BE THE BEGINING OF TL BARBED STRANGLERS THAT AUTO HIT AND REROLL WOUNDS?!?!

That would be very amusing.

[eatthisshoe]

theripperfex said:

-twin-linked rerolls wounds instead of to-hit now (how will TL devourers work?).

Damn I had missed that up until now. This really stinks. I think this will effectively be an all around nerf to twin linked weapons, but it will hurt tyranids the most. And it practically invalidates the living ammo rule.

It will only hurt other armies because rerolling a lascannon shot that wounds on a 2+ has less impact on the chance to kill than reroll a to hit roll on a 3+ or 4+.

[indemaijinj]

theripperfex said:

-twin-linked rerolls wounds instead of to-hit now (how will TL devourers work?).
-blast weapons auto hit (in conjunction with the last one, this could be good for warriors /w deathspitters)

EDIT: WILL THIS BE THE BEGINING OF TL BARBED STRANGLERS THAT AUTO HIT AND REROLL WOUNDS?!?!

I think you misread the twin-linked part. Twin-linked weapons only re-roll to wound if they are template weapons, you know flamers and the like. Regular shooting weapons re-roll to hit as they have always done.
The document is completely silent regarding twin-linked and blast weapons. The drafters seem to have completely forgotten that some blast weapons can be twin-linked.



As for blast weapons, they don't auto-hit, they auto-scatter! Much like guess-range artillery. This means that BS is completely irrelevant which sort of works to our advantage.
When you fire a blast weapon you choose a valid target and check range. If it's out of range the shot is wasted (no "cheesing" shots by deliberately shooting at something out of range and hoping the blasts will scatter into them). If it is within range place the blast marker at your target and roll the scatter die. A HIT means the marker stays where you put it, an arrow means the marker scatters either 1d6 (if the unit didn't move this turn) or 2d6 (if the unit did move this turn) in the direction shown by the arrow (it is entirely possible to hit yourself in the face).

Units with several blast weapons works sorta like the Thudd-guns and Venom Cannons of 2nd ed. You place the first marker using the normal scatter rules. For the next blast roll a scatter die and place the next marker in contact with the first marker in the direction shown by the arrow on the scatter die. Any subsequent markers are placed likewise in contact with a marker already placed.
A HIT result on the scatter die means you get to choose which direction to place your marker in but it must still be in contact.


As for us Tyranid players (we'll probably have to wait a while before we get a 5th ed specific codex) I guess the new blast rules could be sort of saucy though they'll still need to figure out how twin-linked works with blasts.

The fact that you can make a potentially effective shooty unit without investing in Enhanced Senses seems saucy. But on the other hand you probably wouldn't want to fire these kinds of weapons when within assault range as there is an overhanging danger of hitting yourself in the face.

[krakenfiend]

I'm not sure what PDF you guys are reading but...from what I can tell the twin linked weapons still work the same as they have always worked.

krakenfiend

edit: I think the Deathspitter will come into its own in this edition...imaging huge barrages of S6 deathspitters from tyranid warriors.

[shaggy]

All the "new" format codexes are 5th ed compatable. Chaos, Eldar, (I know I'm forgetting more) are viable and can dispell some of these rumors. Some things, like running, can still be added as a universal rule. Btw my local game store has called GW, 5th ed is slated for summer '08 but as always can be pushed back.

[Enigma]

Well, they would probably make new ed codexes for everyone else. I mean, how can you expect the tyranids to cope with this? WHY DID THEY DO THIS TO US!!! OH NOEZ!!!

[indemaijinj]

hivefleetenigma said:

Well, they would probably make new ed codexes for everyone else. I mean, how can you expect the tyranids to cope with this? WHY DID THEY DO THIS TO US!!! OH NOEZ!!!

I don't know. Even if our codex is not really designed with these rules in mind we can work with it.

Our biggest problem is dealing with Armour 13/14 vehicles where our only dependable option are assaulting with monstrous creatures. Yet the running rule means we can get those carnifexes into the fray sooner.

Still, i'd reckon some sort of flyrant is now pretty much mandatory if you expect Land Raiders to show up.

Also, the new blast weapon rules can sort of work to our advantage, especially if twin-linked blast weapons uses the template rules. Throwing S8 pie plates that are guaranteed to land at least somewhere sounds rather nice.

[eatthisshoe]

indemaijinj said:

hivefleetenigma said:

Well, they would probably make new ed codexes for everyone else. I mean, how can you expect the tyranids to cope with this? WHY DID THEY DO THIS TO US!!! OH NOEZ!!!

I don't know. Even if our codex is not really designed with these rules in mind we can work with it.

Our biggest problem is dealing with Armour 13/14 vehicles where our only dependable option are assaulting with monstrous creatures. Yet the running rule means we can get those carnifexes into the fray sooner.

Still, i'd reckon some sort of flyrant is now pretty much mandatory if you expect Land Raiders to show up.

Also, the new blast weapon rules can sort of work to our advantage, especially if twin-linked blast weapons uses the template rules. Throwing S8 pie plates that are guaranteed to land at least somewhere sounds rather nice.

Don't forget to take Warp Blast, because you're gonna need a lot of luck to get any skimmers, with TMCs.

When 5th comes around I will probably be moving to a more swarm based list with Zoanthropes with warp blast and synapse. Probably just a flyrant for monsters.

Carnifexes also got slower since monstrous creatures now get move through cover instead of a re-roll.