NEED HELP BAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[zangetsu]

Like the title says I need help desperately with my Space Marines. In all of the games I've played I have only won about three, and of those only one of them wasn't obtained from my opponnet quiting or me having a clear super advantage. My question is what are some tips you guys could give me for making a 1750 Marines list? Preferably a Shooty army but, those haven't worked in the past so an assualty or balanced list would be helpful as well.

P.S.- My typical opponnets are Necrons and Tyranids, however I would still like good tips for any army.

Also chapter/trait advice would help.

[koran]

Well what army do you have at the moment..... That will give us somewhere to start.

[zangetsu]

I'm not currently running any Space Marine lists however here are some I've done in the past.

thetyranidhive.proboards28.com/index.cgi?board=OtherGamesWorkshopstuff&action=display&thread=1192201533

thetyranidhive.proboards28.com/index.cgi?board=OtherGamesWorkshopstuff&action=display&thread=1191690356

thetyranidhive.proboards28.com/index.cgi?board=OtherGamesWorkshopstuff&action=display&thread=1191446873

thetyranidhive.proboards28.com/index.cgi?board=OtherGamesWorkshopstuff&action=display&thread=1191242686

thetyranidhive.proboards28.com/index.cgi?board=OtherGamesWorkshopstuff&action=display&thread=1190758591

[math]

Heres a tip, include as many assualt cannons as possible. My mate manages to fit in 9 assault cannons on 9 landspeeders with the heavy bolter as well, that 36 shots with a avrage of a good 15 instant kills (roll a 6)
Then 27 heavy bolter shots to back that up. Very effective against my Nid army, not sure about Necrons. Thats with a 1000 point army and still has points left to spend on a couple of pred anil rhinos and some basic troops to fill in army force chart.

So with those extra points you will have include as much heavy weapons as possible, I would keep CC units to a min or not at all. Unless of course you feild CC terminators they stand more of a chance.

[coredump]

Zang, your question is just way too broad. You have gotten lots of advice, on lots of different styles of lists. You need to pick one and try it.

Then, when you lose, try and figure out *why* you lost. There is more to learning to play than just what list to use. You need to figure out how to improve as a tactician, as well as list building.

To do that, you need to play games, and you need to analyze what you did during the game. What worked, what didn't. Which enemy units were the most threatening, which did the most damage. Which of your broods were effective for you, which tactics worked. Did you use the right brood for the right job? Or were you just throwing models at targets and hoping to get lucky.

If you want help in that regard, you need to post a battle report. Then we can help you figure out what you did right, and wrong. And then offer adjustments to your list to help you out.

[lowlygaunt]

math: your post on the land speeders and assault cannons confused me. You said an average instant kill of 15 out of 36 in one round of shooting?!?! That isn't average, that is stupendous, since the average is in fact 6. maybe you meant 15 total wounds, no saves because your tyranids and AP 4 is higher then your armor?

@ Zangetsu: One of the secrets to 40k is recognising your opponents weaknesses and using the army you have to exploit it. Against tyranids you absolutely need to stay back, shoot, and try to keep them out of CC range. heavy bolters, assault cannons, things like that work well against the tyranid horde. Against necrons itis a toughercombination of high volume of fire, and high AP weapons. Also, a really good CC squad of terminators that get into combat with necrons is deadly. I believe that weapons that negate armor saves also negate WBB under most circumstances, so lightning claw armed terminators are deadly, IF you can get them into CC.
The reality is, as Coredump stated, there is no secret or miracle army. Learning to play your army and use its strengths to attack your opponents weaknesses is the key.

[Overread]

Take notes during play, so that you can give us a battle report (also note down your opponents army list). That way we not only get a look at what beat you, but also get to see if there are any tactical errors that you are making as well

[zangetsu]

Thanks guys I'll try a list ASAP and get a battle report up to be reviewed.

[crusader]

my advice: drop marines and start black templars hahaha just kidding.
Really though, nids and crons are the two armies I play the most two. Try using plasma vs the crons as well as assault cannon equipped temies. That way you can chew through both nidzillas and crons. Mabye you should drop some razorbacks if you want to be a shooty army. Shooty armies don't like to move unless you're tau of course. Try to avoid killing things like the monolith and tomb spiders as you just need to phase them out. That is the first thing that I try to figure out: How much do I need to kill?

Also, against necrons, this is an excellent tactic.
full CC termie squad with lightnig claws
full scout squad with vet. sarge with teleport homer.
get the scouts to infiletrate in close and stay alive!
scout squad gets stuck in with some destoyers or warriors. Stuff that will kill the termies.
termies deep stike within 6" of sarge and assalut the next turn
scouts (if alive) provide meat shields and/or cover fire

[Krueger]

That leapfrog idea is really good. People forget about the termies and engage the scouts and then BAM! They've got a squad of terminators on them.

Against 'crons and 'nids, tank hunters is useless, so is infiltrators. I like your second experimental list. It has a lot of numbers, maneuverability and fire power. Also a good balance between shooting and assault. However, I'd drop 3 of the razorback and try to squeeze in a landraider. It's been a while since I've seen the point costs.

[zangetsu]

Here my newest list (with help from sephiroth00055)

HQ-
Master of Sanctity, Terminator Armor, Twin Lighting Claws

Elities-
8 man Assualt Terminators (6 Twin Lighting Claws, 2 Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield ) with Land Raider Crusader Transport.

7 man Assualt Terminators (5 Twin Lighting Claws, 2 Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield) with Land Raider Crusader Transport.

Troops-
5 man Scout Squad, 5 Sniper Rifles
5 man Scout Squad, 5 Sniper Rifles
6 man Tactical, Lascannon
5 man Tactical, Lascannon
5 man Tactical, Lascannon

Is transporting or teleporting better?
Also can the Master of Sanctity get in the seven man termies' LRC?

[serif]

yes he can

[zangetsu]

Since the Master of Sanctity is a separete squad can he ride in the LRC when not joined or can he join when he gets in?

[Devil's Advocate]

he automatically joins when he rides in the transport. if you don't want him to be joined, then when you disembark, make sure that you move him out of coherency with the terminator squad.

[zangetsu]

Can the Master of Sanctity start in the LRC with the termies.