Terra's Halo First Configuration

[zangetsu]

First List-
1750 List
Chapter Traits-
Honor your Wargear, Have Faith in Suspicion

HQ-
Captain(60), Plasma Pistol(15), Power Sword(15) = 90

Heavy Support-
Vindicator(125)/ Three=375

Elites-
Devastator Squad(75), 4 Missile Launchers(80), Infriltrate(15), Terminator Honors(15), Plasma Pistol(10)=195/ Three Squads=585

Fast Attack-
Land Speeder Typhoon(150)/ Two Squads= 300

Troops-
Tactical Squad(75), Plasmagun(10), Terminator Honors(15), Plasma Pistol(10)=110/ Three Squads=330

Transport-
Razorback(70)

Second List-
1750
Chapter Traits: Honor your Wargear, Have Faith in Suspicion.

HQ- Captian, Plasma Pistol, Power Sword=90

Elites-Devastator Squad, 4 Multi-melta, 5 Infriltrate=170 (Three squads=510)

Fast Attack-Land Speeder Tornado*3=(one squad)240 (Two squads=480)

Troops-Tactical Squad, Lascannon, Plasmagun=145 (Two Squads)=290

Heavy Support-Vindicators=125 (Three squads)=375

Is this list any good? Any way to improve it?

[Voice of Reason]

ok well, lets see.

first issue I have is that I don't know how many models are in each squad.
second issue I have is that I'm not sure what the traits do. I know one of them lets you put dev squads into the elite and lets you infiltrate... because that's been used to poor effect on me. Not sure which one tho.
third issue I have is that it's much more important to list final unit points, and not individual costs (we don't want GW mad at us).

now lets break it down:

zangetsu said:

First List-
1750 List
Chapter Traits- Honor your Wargear, Have Faith in Suspicion

HQ-
Captain(60), Plasma Pistol(15), Power Sword(15) = 90

what's he do, just run around on his own? did you take him to just fill your HQ slot or do you actually want to use him for something? he's not very well equipped. can't move well, has no (obvious) support, no extra attacks, no mastercrafted anything.

Heavy Support-
Vindicator(125)/ Three=375

pretty darn bad tank. it'll be cool in apocalypse, but really no good for standard games. Not great armor, poor range (24"), single shot with the cannon or with the storm bolter. AP 2 is about the only thing really going for it. Bleh. don't get me wrong: 3 is really cool and you're gonna smash something really good... when they don't drift off target. but considering that you can drop an ord template on a unit and the unit is protected by:
1. spreading out
2. drifting template
3. cover saves
this is not the best weapon choice IMO.
Another thing to note is that the Vindicator is 125 points and a Predator with Heavy bolter side sponsons is 130 points. you get to move 6", a twin linked lascannon and 6 shots with Str 5 AP 4 guns. Perfect Tyranid killer for 5 more points.

Elites-
Devastator Squad(75), 4 Missile Launchers(80), Infriltrate(15), Terminator Honors(15), Plasma Pistol(10)=195/ Three Squads=585

almost 600 points for 15 models, with no better than AP 3 weapons.
Missile launchers are great against elite fexi, but really no good against the rest of the tyranid army. you're either dropping an AP 5 small blast template and MAYBE killing 3 tyranids, (most likely only 1) OR you're shooting an AP 3 missile at a target and either killing a small target or glancing off heavy 2+ armor. Get lascannons.
futhermore:
a. They're devastators with 48" range. They should be as far from your targets as possible. Why are you infiltrating them?
b. They're devastators with 48" range. They should be as far from your targets as possible. Why do the Sgts have 12" range plasma pistols?
c. They're devastators with 48" range. They should be as far from your targets as possible. Why do the Sgts have Vet upgrades?
taking off these upgrades will save you possibly more than 120 points! that's EIGHT more marines!!! Eight more marines means 16 more bolter shots, another round that the MC is stuck in combat, or another half of a brood killed.

Fast Attack-
Land Speeder Typhoon(150)/ Two Squads= 300

How many speeders is this? what are they armed with? more missile launchers??
Assault cannons on these guys can be really painful for any opponent, and especially for Nidzilla. they are a powerful tool, but only if used en masse. this of course, makes them more vulnerable too.

Troops-
Tactical Squad(75), Plasmagun(10), Terminator Honors(15), Plasma Pistol(10)=110/ Three Squads=330

not bad, but the units are painful small. 5x marines are a light snack for just about ANY tyranid unit. Devilfexi or Devil tyrants will kill 3-5 in a single volley. 16 Hgaunts will kill 5-6 in a single charge phase. up your unit size.

Transport-
Razorback(70)

how many? armed with Hbolters? Lascannon? this tank is an excellent way to almost guarantee a single wound on a MC, but it can be fragile and expensive.

I'm counting something close to 31 infantry models, 4 tanks and an unknown number of mystery speeders.

Second List-
1750
Chapter Traits: Honor your Wargear, Have Faith in Suspicion.

HQ- Captian, Plasma Pistol, Power Sword=90

See above.

Elites-Devastator Squad, 4 Multi-melta, 5 Infriltrate=170 (Three squads=510)

better choice for the infiltration weapon, but 24" is incredibly short range and almost suicide against any quick moving tyranids. this set up is actually great against mechanized armies... it could get very painful for tyranids... if you get first turn.

Fast Attack-Land Speeder Tornado*3=(one squad)240 (Two squads=480)

See my comment about speeders above.

Troops-Tactical Squad, Lascannon, Plasmagun=145 (Two Squads)=290

how many in these squads? 5? Las-plas sucks. you're either standing still hoping they walk into your field of view or you're toting a big cannon around and not using it. take the cannon out, add more troops.

Heavy Support-Vindicators=125 (Three squads)=375

See above.

The trick to taking out Nidzilla (and really any tyranid list) is to focus on isolating individual units and shooting it till it dies. Good weapon choices are key, but much more important is excellent fire discipline.

Read the battle reports on this thread. in it I defeat 2 very different tyranid armies with my space marine list.

[zangetsu]

Um... I clicked on the link and it says the page dosen't exist.

[coredump]

Okay, I don't play marines, so take the advice with that in mind.
But I understand that you are mainly facing NidZilla

Dev squads, should do very well against the devilfexes. why pay for termie honors? Why get a plasma gun? I would assume they would do fine on your side of the board. You don't want them to get close to the enemy.

Tac squad: Why a plasma pistol? Do you really want to be within 12"? 24" means you are in devourer range, and that is bad. Skip the term honors, and the plasma pistol. Get a lascannon. (Either instead of, or in addition to the lasgun)

Landspeeders are your friend. They have range and speed, two things Zilla doesn't have. But I don't see the role of the typhoon, I think you are better off with a tornado.

Vindicator: Again with the 24" range? Any devilfex or deviltyrant can take one out on the side armor. I would go with 2 predator annihilators, and one whirlwind

I might play with the idea of getting some razorbacks. 90pts for a twin linked lascannon... not bad. Just keep them out of LoS of the sniperfex, and out of range of the devourers.


Tactics:
Set up to give yourself good lanes of fire. Cover isn't important, since Nids don't have anything worth using cover. Now, blocking line of site is different, and is still useful. But a devil flyrant shooting you in cover, and in the open, does the same damage.

First 2 turns. All lascannons that can, take out the flyrant. It is his only fast unit.
All Missle launchers take out the devilfexes. They are his main offense.
Any missle launchers that don't have a shot at a devilfex, target the small units. Stealers or gaunts or whatever.
Any lascannons that can't hit the flyrant, target either another HT, or a sniperfex. Note: It should be the one that will be easiest to take out. ie. a sniperfex that is in LoS of a lot of lascannons. Don't waste a shot on something you can't kill next turn. (unless that is literally all you have.)
Leave the Zoans for later. A HT with guard will take forever to kill.
If a devilfex has only 1 wound left, then use a tac squad to finish it off. No sense using 4 missles to do that job.

Speeders: keep them out of devourer range. That means you may not be able to use the assault cannons for the first couple of turns. Keep them out of LoS of the sniperfexes if you can.
If the flyrant gets too far away from the rest of the TMC's, then you can get close to the flyrant, and blast it with 12 HB and 16 AC shots. Kill it dead. (But again, *not* if it will mean the death of the landspeeders.)
Remember, the assault cannon has a range of 24". The devilfexes can move 6", then shoot 18". you really don't want them taking out the landspeeders. So only use the assault cannons if you can hit one thing, and not get smacked by everything else.

Whirlwind goes after the soft units. Stealers, raveners, gaunts, rippers, etc.


Turn 3+ At this point, You should have killed off a number of units, but they are now within devourer range and have taken some of you out too. My army suggestion has 5-9 lascannons. So the flyrant is hopefully gone, and 1-2 devilfex.
Finish killing those off. At this point, you can be more daring with the landspeeders. If the sniperfexes are staying behind in cover, you can zoom off and hit them and stay safe. With the missle launchers, and landspeeders, you may be able to take out the rest of the devourer shooting.
Kill the devilfexes first. Then missles go to soft targets, landspeeders go to flyrants and fexes.
Eventually, even your commander can join the fight and kill of some stuff... maybe.

I don't know, my description sure makes it seem easy, and I know it isn't this easy. But hey, it might be.

Remember, the goal for the first two turns is to lose no models, play it safe and just shoot the heck out of him. Make him use cover, it will slow him down. Yeah, he has 2-3 sniperfexes.... big deal. Flyrants and devilfexes are top priority

edit: Hmmm... after reading Striogi's... it may be a good idea to switch from missles to lascannons. OTOH, if you go with the predators you may not need 21 lascannons....

Voice of Reason: I had the same question, but to take dev as elite, you need to also take infiltrate or tank hunter.
And there are 4 landspeeders, but his points are off.

[Voice of Reason]

zangetsu said:

Um... I clicked on the link and it says the page dosen't exist.

fixed the link.

[sephiroth00055]

Remember guys you are helping a marine player against one of your own. Help him make a good overall list, not a kill tyranids list.

[zangetsu]

He is somewhat right. I want a good list for overall combat. I do fight armies other than tyranids.

[Voice of Reason]

sephiroth00055 said:

Remember guys you are helping a marine player against one of your own. Help him make a good overall list, not a kill tyranids list.

So what if he plays a different army? He still plays the same game. I'd rather see more players with good advice and tactics then to tell someone to shove off and potentially lose another player because they get discouraged.

and who knows? if he's treated well here, maybe he'll start another Nid army.

zangetsu said:

He is somewhat right. I want a good list for overall combat. I do fight armies other than tyranids.

The suggestions that coredump and I give can actually be applied to face nearly any opponent.
The LAST thing you want to do is drive your Vindicators up to a raft of necron warriors and let that cannon loose, assuming they even make it that far. generally speaking both of those lists don't put out enough shots to worry any opponent and you have no assault or anti-assault units.

in many cases, space marines can be built to not need anti-assault, but I don't think this list is really built that way.
it is STRONGLY anti-mech, I'll admit (12 missile launchers with AP 3 krack missiles? ouch) but the list can be so much more than what it is.

[sephiroth00055]

Hey, Striogi, I was just messing around. As I said in the "new" post in the general part of the forums, zangetsu is my cousin and I was joking with him. I thought he would see that and ask you guys to make him a death to all tyranids list. I did not mean it in a mean or harsh way, and when I told him about it he laughed. I am sorry if you took it like I was being rude, but that was not the intent.

[Voice of Reason]

I'm not offended in the least, I'm sorry if I came out harsh. I couldn't really tell if you were joking.

cheers all and good luck.

[crusader]

If I was you I would drop the whole marine list and switch to black templars.
But if you don't want to do that I would try dropping the vindicators and getting some terminators or a land raider. Also, I would get an assault squad or three to replace a land speeder squad. Looking at your army, if you're fighting tau your going to be having a shootout with them and I doubt that it will end very well. And i think that you might want to try droping a devasator squad and giving the other two multi-melta. That works EXTREMELY well against both tank heavy armies and nid-zilla armies. Good luck with it though!

[coredump]

Multi-melta: You can't move and shoot, and it only has a 24" range.
Why is it a good idea?