How does counter attack work?

[graveaccomplice]

Mainly, does it trigger effects that activate on an assault? I'm asking to find out if this ability triggers the howling banshees's mask and war shout.

[miggel]

Imo the banshee's abilities trigger on the first round of combat, nothing else. So they will always work when a combat is started. I could be wrong, it has been a while.

[coredump]

Your question doesn't really make sense to me. Could you be a bit more specific?

Counter-Charge normally only works on the first round of combat, Banshee masks only work on the first round of combat.
I am not sure what scenario you are trying to describe.

[graveaccomplice]

Might be I'm mistaken, but I thought banshee abilities only triggered if they were initiating the assault.

[carnogaunt]

No, it works regardless of who performs the assault (I learned that the hard way when my Broodlord charged them and got chopped to bits ).

[Dropfred]

Would the banshee mask and counter attack still work if you consolidate into them instead of charging in.(After wining a combat then winning a sweeping advance then consolidating into the banshees)Seeing as how they have now been locked in the assault but there is no charge ?

[coredump]

Counter attack does not 'work' with a consolidate.

I am not sure about Banshee....

[hivefleetsurt]

Banshee mask don't 'work' with consolidate either.

[lowlygaunt]

Banshee masks specifically say "banshess swing first in the first round of combat" charging etc is irrelevant. Now as to a consolidation move into a nother unit, i guess it depends. Banshees swing first in the first round of seperate combat they are involved in. If the interpretation of a consolidation move into combat is considered an extension of the first combat then no the mask does not work. if it is considered a second combat, one in which you simply do not get a charge bonus, then yes, the mask works. I do not have my rulebook to see if there is any statement under the consolidate rules saying specifically it is considered a continuation of the first combat. We have always interpreted it as a seperate combat, initiated when the Banshees consolidated into the new enemy. I haven't seen a faq or anything on this and do not have my rulebook with me however.

The key to me is that some abilities say the first round of combat, and some say when the unit charges. A unit that consolidates does not count as charging, but is obviousely fighting a first round of combat against a new unit. Of course that is using logic, something often missing from GW rules, if the rules specificaly say a unit that consolidates into another CC does not get the bonuses given by abilities used in the first round OR that a unit that consolidates into CC is considered as continuing the same combat, then they do not.
I believe the counter assault ability says "a unit that is charged with this ability. . " or some equivalent.

[yoritomo]

I don't think that banchees get to use their mask if they are consolidated into, just like a unit gets not cover bonus if they are consoliaded into. I should think the same thing goes for counterattack. Though I would have to look it up in the rulebook to be sure.

(counterattack is on page 74 of the rulebook and I believe consoladation is on page 47 of the rulebook if anyone is eager to find out)

[Volen]

Counterattack specifically says it does not go into effect if the Unit is contacted as part of a consolidation move.

I don't have an Eldar Codex so I have no idea what it says for Banshee masks...

[lowlygaunt]

All Banshee masks say (after the fluff) is that Howling Banshees swing first in the first round of a combat, irregardless of initiative order or any other items that change initiative, such as grenades or cover.

[hivefleetsurt]

From what is says on p. 44 in the BRB that when you consolidate into another unit it "does not count as charging when combat is worked out the next turn." Since the units are locked in combat in that assault phase but it is not worked out until the next turn the people who I play with have always interpreted that to mean that the turn that you consolidate is the first turn but neither side gets to attack. So the banshee mask would not take effect in the next assault phase.
Sorry for rambling.

[lowlygaunt]

Banshee masks (I finaly got my codex) says specifically "In the first round of an assault. . ". So the first round of any assault the banshees are involved in, they swing first. it does not say when they assault, just in the first round of an assault. if an assault ids designed as a combat between two opponents, then the first round of any combat between two enemies, they swing first. in a consolidat, that takes place at the END of the assault phase, and therefore in my interpretation, does not count as the first round of an assault, when they consolidate into another unit. the first round they swing at each other, is the first round of the assault. If someone sees a rule to the contrary let me know please.

[hivefleetsurt]

As you said consolidation takes place at the end of the assault phase. So they are in combat that assault phase but don't get to strike back until the next phase which would not be the first round of assault.