How to play against new SM weapon AP and associated toys

[calbanite]

I'm not trying to be salty, but the ridiculous amount of AP being thrown around is really going to hurt our monstrous creatures (AP-4 Heavy weapons) and mow down our hordes (bolters getting AP-1 / AP-2).

With the tweaked reroll hits wording, they will be able to better deal with -1 to hit shenanigans as well.

I feel it will play less of a role in most matches, but all marine units getting +1 to their attacks on the charge / being charged with the possibility of swinging at AP+1, we also can get wiped in combat if we aren't careful about what we units we throw at them.

Turn 1 Drop Pods and getting vaporized by AP-2 Heavy Flamers? Charged by Black Templars?

So... any ideas from the hive?

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I'll be sure that we all play with plenty of terrain to get cover and/or leverage that first turn strat to give everyone cover saves. Still rely on covering our bugs with as much -1 to hit as possible.

Be smart with charges. Make the opponent have a hard choice trying to choose a unit to interrupt with. Veteran Intercessors are swinging with 4 attacks each in CC which is enough to wipe a Gaunt squad or hamstring stealers...

[acehilator]

With Kraken melee units and Dakkatyrants you can use the droppods to protect yourself. Killing the stuff that disembarked shouldn't be a problem, charge/consolidate/Overrun into the droppod and don't even try to kill it (touch with one model or whatever). Next turn go from there.

Haven't checked the Codex yet, I was under the impression the new wording for reroll hits is only for Papa Smurf?

[hadies]

What is this reroll hits wording you are talking about? Where did you find it?

[wormlord666]

Surviving the heavy shooting is a big problem. Touching, horroring and venomthropes are the tricks we have got. Marines don’t like smite and mortal wounds so bring in the zoathropes and the sporemine generators. I havent seen the points for marines but i suspect they are expensive and that makes smite great. Trap them with cheap stuff line gaunts and gargoyles and then smite them to death.
The monsters stay on the shelf, sadly.

[mattblowers]

Aug 14, 2019 4:18:07 GMT hadies said:

What is this reroll hits wording you are talking about? Where did you find it?

It's on leaked images from Gullimans page. He doesn't reroll all misses, he can reroll all to hit rolls.

[calbanite]

Aug 14, 2019 11:15:38 GMT mattblowers said:

Aug 14, 2019 4:18:07 GMT hadies said:

What is this reroll hits wording you are talking about? Where did you find it?

It's on leaked images from Gullimans page. He doesn't reroll all misses, he can reroll all to hit rolls.

On the video reviews of the codex / supplement, they kept referencing Guilliman has the new "Chapter Master wording". I assume it carried over to all Captains and other similar aura abilities, but I wasn't able to make out the exact wording in the 1080P videos -_-

[acehilator]

Even if that's the case, not sure how many people are going to run Chapter Masters instead of Captains. Also, looks like the Malantrophe is back in business. Pretty sure Venomtrophes are not going to cut it against massed Intercessor fire with AP -1/2. Neurotrophes have become undesireable anyways with the ridiculous point increase in CA2018.

[Hive Bahamut]

Aug 14, 2019 13:24:55 GMT acehilator said:

Even if that's the case, not sure how many people are going to run Chapter Masters instead of Captains. Also, looks like the Malantrophe is back in business. Pretty sure Venomtrophes are not going to cut it against massed Intercessor fire with AP -1/2. Neurotrophes have become undesireable anyways with the ridiculous point increase in CA2018.

Why would you ever run a captain when for 3CP you can twinlink your entire army? Worth more than 2CP to shoot 2 times one phase. Chapter Master is easily their best multiplier, and now that Reboot is only reroll 1 to wound that fellow will probably be replaced by Lt. That do the exact same thing (still?)

The amount of extra rules between 2x traits and 4 rules from angels of death is a kneejerk pendulum swing. I expect Templars (5FNP against mortals and reroll any charge) will be devastating 1st turn charge. The fact drop pods are back to turn 1 REALLY frustrates me. Nevermind the nail in the coffin -4AP Lascannons are too our already useless monsters (Aeldari had -4 INSTEAD of S9, now Astartes gets ALL the rules.)

GW: We have redesigned GSC because the deepstrike assault army is too powerful with it. Here you go favourite child. You can have it, along with 11" Heavy/flamers and 4A with -1 in combat. (please do not swear) off xenos players this is 40k not 10k years after 30k when there are actually several other races.

[irondreddknight]

The new SM doctrines add 1AP to they’re weapons. All I’m saying is, AP doesnt hurt genestealers

[garg]

That's true but UM stratagem to do tau style multi unit overwatch will. Not to mention the melee counter punch from the extra attacks.

[terminatoruk]

Well I feel like I've absorbed it by virue of running Hive Fleet Jormungandr but then also it has killed my benefit at the same time.

Unfortunately it plays into the hands of the 'cookie cutter' builds with lots of invulnerable saves further narrowing army variability and it will yet again be another nail in the coffin for running any sort of mass-monster lists.

I guess horde lists with something like Leviathan will be least affected for the mass 6+ FNP which can't be modified.

The only positive way to look at it is, hopefully, it will now set a precedence for other codices going forwards and (dreaming) we will see a re-released, buffed and re-balanced codex for Tyranids.

It would be awesome to see if the 'pick 2' build-your-own successor chapter rule system comes along for running Tyranid splinter fleets. This would be awesome and I think so important / relevant as you get so many custom fleets being run for Tyranids.

[LordPathos]

Aug 20, 2019 15:53:13 GMT terminatoruk said:

It would be awesome to see if the 'pick 2' build-your-own successor chapter rule system comes along for running Tyranid splinter fleets. This would be awesome and I think so important / relevant as you get so many custom fleets being run for Tyranids.

Kraken's 3d6 advance, Behemoth's re-roll the charge.

[naviedzony]

I think it's time to switch to all-invulnerable-save army. Genestealers and Zoanthropes are best friends I assume.

[calbanite]

Okay... now I'm salty.

How in the *BLEEP* do we win vs Iron Hands?

Deepstrike denial due to Scouts / Incursors

-1 Damage AOE relic that affects BOTH shooting and melee.

6+++ FNP along with a rumored 5++ AOE bubble from Forge Father.

Doubled wounds for degradation. 5's to Overwatch.

Devastator Doctrine giving +1 AP (AP4 LasCannons...) IN ADDITION to giving everything PotMS and freeeeeeeeeeeeeeee reroll 1's to hit.

T1 Drop Pod Grav Devastator Bomb

Supressors dropping in with AP3 Autocannons, hitting on 3's, with pseudo captain buff, preventing overwatch so that all manner of Marine pain to swoop in unmolested.

Thunderfire Temorshells to slow down 2 units

Half Damage dread strat. Rumored "make a dread a character" strat to turn a Leviathan into even more of an monster.

Repairs for days... so that if we don't completely eat a vehicle it's gonna be healed and fighting at almost full capacity due to buffed wound chart.

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A single crushing claw fex deals like 3 wounds to a dread and gets clapped on the backswing. A stonecrusher can kill a single dread if it rolls high for damage due to that damn -1 damage aura. And gets clapped on the backswing. OOE can eat a dread or two on average but gets clapped on the backswing. The points efficiency of their dreads goes through the freaking roof.

All of our Hive Guard shooting is doing -1 damage essentially halving our damage output. Exorcines can't even degrade a vehicle or kill a dread while using the Slime... Rupture TFexes can't kill a dread through the relic using Slime as well...

[acehilator]

If you don't like the new school (infantry-based UM Intercessors/Agressors/Hellblasters), you can go old school with IH. Leviathan, couple Quad Lascannon Relic Mortis Contemptors. Sprinkle in some Intercessors for Troops and anti-infantry firepower. Really glad I am playing AoS currently, lol.