Post by No One on Feb 25, 2019 1:23:49 GMT
hiveminded said:
If we're talking abot a Leman Russ...you're comitting a Patriarch and clamavus (175 pts) to kill a tank that is roughly the same points cost. Not to mention that the Leman Russ is going to be on the far side of the board, so to get into range, you're likely suiciding the two models.Why is your patty+clamavus not hiding with all the other guys? I didn't say anything about cast on the drop: show up, kill stuff, move+advance and kill stuff with 18" power. While killing stuff in combat. All with better Character protection.
Basically, broodlord at 115 is decent/good due to hitting power with Character. Patriarch has DS, removing one of the broodlord's biggest issues (low mobility), and is the only source of Fearless. Thus is already very good for 125 pts. Then you add on something, that in some match ups, you're able to do almost for free (depending on other casters, there is definite opportunity cost with powers though) that would almost be worth the cost? My kill count with mental onslaught is...a hellhound, a talos, 2-3 venoms, 1-2 ravagers and possibly a Character, while my patriarch is yet to die. That makes Magnus smite look meh, and leaves our similar targeted offensive power in the dust. Now, is it universally OP? No: against Tau, I only did ~3 wounds on a riptide, and a couple of casts on shield captains for similar. But those are pretty tanky targets anyway, so a couple of MW on them still isn't bad.
The only reason I'd call it not OP, is the fact that it competes with hyp/might and familiar only gives extra cast once. But that's, in general, solved by having another caster. And in some cases, it's better than those (in the DE game I was running single psyker: for that, it was killier than might, and better damage reduction than hyp).
Edit: I'll caveat this by saying that I don't think this is even the most OP power (*cough* pheonix *cough* quicken), just of a type of situationally very strong that GW won't want in the game (and to be honest, I don't disagree with that). Because losing stuff without being able to do anything about it...isn't great: oh hi there D! That was a good rule, right? And this essentially does that under ideal/almost ideal circumstances: no armour, no invuls, if you've got FNP keep rolling until you're dead. The issue with the FAQ is...it doesn't make it less strong in those situations : it just makes those situations rarer, and makes it worse in the situations where it was already a bit more meh.
The same tank could easily destroyed at range by a space marine lascannon devastator squad or a tempestus scion drop plasma squad.
See, here's the thing: you can shoot them/screen them then shoot them. This? Well, you can, but it's a lot harder. If the only psyker we had at ld 10 was, say, a flyrant? Wouldn't be as good. (Also, you say you're out of range, then offer the 12" effective threat range as a counter point of something that can do the same thing?)