Cheesy lists

[demodevo]

Can I just state for the record running hordes of mucolid spores and ripper swarms with a couple Mawlocs and hive tyrants is cheesy AF? Am I alone in thinking that just because it wins doesnt mean it is in good spirit? Again, let me state, I get why these lists are getting in top three at several tournaments but they are super lame.

[gigasnail]

I think it's just you.

[demodevo]

Haha I guess. I thought the point was to actually move and fight with some tactics not just cheese up a loophole in the rules.

[dagirlz]

Lol, demodevo is a timmy, man get over it, you are just bad at tactics, simple.

Learn, improve, adept, win or complain, stay bad, lose.

[gigasnail]

May 14, 2018 22:08:10 GMT demodevo said:

Haha I guess. I thought the point was to actually move and fight with some tactics not just cheese up a loophole in the rules.

It's an objective based game. The point is to win. It's not a loophole.

[yoritomo]

Okay, let’s assume you’re correct and multi-flyrant lists are cheesey. What is your solution? Give people a bonus for playing “fluffy” armies? We tried that. They were called formations and they nearly broke 40k.

I get where you’re coming from. I don’t like them either. However, nobody is forcing you to play a penta-flyrant army. There’s enough good stuff in the codex that you can make most armies work.


And for those of you who are telling him to “get good”, he isn’t wrong. All he’s doing is asking for the same thing most of you asked for during 6th edition and 7th edition. You should know that forcing people into a mono-build army isn’t bad tactics, it’s a result of poor game design.

[clokwrkpig]

For tournaments, if it is legal and effective, then it has a place there.

For a casual setting, I'd expect most players to think that's cheesy. Unless I am missing something, the point of the list is basically to just sit on an objective, be difficult to see/kill, and have enough cheap bodies that not all can be removed within 5-7 turns? Yeah, that's effective and yeah, it plays the objective. Same in 7th with JetSeerStars or Dark Angel rerollable 2+ cover saves. It seems to be an army that lacks almost all of the interactions between the players that makes games fun.

[gigasnail]

May 15, 2018 3:29:55 GMT yoritomo said:

Okay, let’s assume you’re correct and multi-flyrant lists are cheesey. What is your solution? Give people a bonus for playing “fluffy” armies? We tried that. They were called formations and they nearly broke 40k.

I get where you’re coming from. I don’t like them either. However, nobody is forcing you to play a penta-flyrant army. There’s enough good stuff in the codex that you can make most armies work.


And for those of you who are telling him to “get good”, he isn’t wrong. All he’s doing is asking for the same thing most of you asked for during 6th edition and 7th edition. You should know that forcing people into a mono-build army isn’t bad tactics, it’s a result of poor game design.

he isn't talking about 5+ flyrants. he's talking about basic board control via infantry backed up by a couple of mawlocks and flyrants as cheesy.

[kazetanade]

Is that list even workable with beta rules now? I'm not sute.

I wouldnt call it cheesy. I'd call it trolltastic. If i lost to it I'd have to evaluate seriously why i did, because i obviously made a boo boo somewhere and the other guy basically won with an army that requires mostly smart positioning and a good technique to overload my threat priority with trash mobs.

[clokwrkpig]

Hmmm, now I'm not sure what lists we are actually discussing.

Demodevo, are you referring to the pre-FAQ flyrant spam lists (such as listed here bloodofkittens.com/8th-edition-top-army-list-compendium/)?

[kazetanade]

May 15, 2018 7:02:24 GMT clokwrkpig said:

Hmmm, now I'm not sure what lists we are actually discussing.

Demodevo, are you referring to the pre-FAQ flyrant spam lists (such as listed here bloodofkittens.com/8th-edition-top-army-list-compendium/)?

"Can I just state for the record running hordes of mucolid spores and ripper swarms with a couple Mawlocs and hive tyrants is cheesy AF?"

^ i think he was referring to this.

Edit: it is completely possible he's referring to the Adepticon list but describing it poorly. In which case me and giga would have been reading it wrong.

[rpricew]

I would like to see the specific list that the OP is talking about. So we can discuss without assumptions.

demodevo

[Hive Bahamut]

While I like the idea that we can finally pull some weight, the game is too fluid now for cheese lists, (at least for us.) Anything broken will be exploited by tournament spamming and then readjusted. (Or in Biovores case Finecast inventory blowout, before raising to lock out until dual kit.)

IMO cheese is something the opponent can't react too. Aeldari lists denying all ITC secondaries, Militarum lists with HWT for 9 models, pre FAQ turn 2 against Blood Angels etc. We have a boatload of tools now but if your opponent is falling apart to Nids, it might be because they are so used to clubbing seals, that fighting an army with some teeth might catch them off guard.

I still hear how OP some of our units are, but at the end of the day they all have their weakness. Genestealers are OP: try shooting them.. Exocrines are ridiculous. 36" range, make the fat (please do not swear) move.

Oh, maybe GSC. They pretty OP during 8th. Especially now that Deathwatch is out. Use the Flesh Stealer Cult Hives!

[kazetanade]

GSC gets to hijack Deathwatch rules too? This is news.

[Hive Bahamut]

May 15, 2018 20:43:04 GMT kazetanade said:

GSC gets to hijack Deathwatch rules too? This is news.

No, other than Mind Control. I was being sarcastic, just meaning that they are already a bad index (arguably worst army in 8th by a long shot.) Now add onto that their Krytonite was just released, and that Militarum and Nids are powerful and you get one big steamy pile of an army.

I finally made something suicide with Mind Control last night. Mass Hypnosis a Ravenwing Apothacary and Overcharged his plasma to shoot some bikes. Opponent was quite sad, but that was like the 3rd time it's EVER killed something.

If GSC has anywhere near a half decent codex Nids are going to be ridiculous. Ì believe apart from Aeldari we have the most options of any Xenos.