Kraken and Kronos 2000 points

[drujeful]

Hi all, I started collecting Tyranids during 5th edition without really looking into resources on what to buy. I stopped playing the game up until last month when I grabbed a couple new sets to try and update my army to 8th edition. Below is a list I put together of what I currently own. I don't want to have to spend a ton of money on new sets, but I'm open to buying something if this list is just really not all that great.

Kraken/Kronos Army
119 PL 1985pts

Kraken Battalion

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Tyranids) [91 PL, 1478pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Hive Fleet: Kraken

+ Heavy Support +

Mawloc [6 PL, 105pts]: Prehensile Pincer Tail, Toxin Sacs

Mawloc [6 PL, 105pts]: Prehensile Pincer Tail, Toxin Sacs

+ HQ +

Broodlord [8 PL, 162pts]: Monstrous Rending Claws, Power: Catalyst

Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 198pts]: Chameleonic Mutation, Power: Catalyst, Power: Paroxysm, 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Adaptive Biology, Wings

Tervigon [13 PL, 244pts]: Massive Scything Talons, Power: Catalyst, Stinger Salvo, Toxin Sacs

+ Troops +

Genestealers [16 PL, 200pts]: 4x Acid Maw, 4x Flesh Hooks
. 16x Genestealer: 16x Rending Claws, 16x Scything Talons

Genestealers [16 PL, 200pts]: 4x Acid Maw, 4x Flesh Hooks
. 16x Genestealer: 16x Rending Claws, 16x Scything Talons

Hormagaunts [6 PL, 120pts]
. 20x Hormagaunt: 20x Adrenal Glands

Termagants [9 PL, 144pts]
. 12x Termagant (Devourer): 12x Devourer
. 12x Termagant (Fleshborer)

++ Total: [91 PL, 1478pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe


Kronos Battalion

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Tyranids) [28 PL, 507pts] ++

+ Heavy Support +

Exocrine [11 PL, 216pts]

+ HQ +

Neurothrope [4 PL, 70pts]: Power: Psychic Scream

Neurothrope [4 PL, 70pts]: Power: Psychic Scream

+ Elites +

Lictor [2 PL, 45pts]: Flesh Hooks, Rending Claws

+ Troops +

Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]: 3x Ripper Swarm

Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]: 3x Ripper Swarm

Termagants [3 PL, 40pts]: 10x Termagant (Fleshborer)

++ Total: [28 PL, 507pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe


Kraken units rush in quick with termagants and Flyrant raining fire with assault weapons. Tervigon respawns dead termagants. Genestealers, hormagaunts, and Broodlord rush in for close combat. Mawlocs deep strike into enemy units to inflict mortal wounds and force the opponent to reprioritize firepower. If the mawlocs aren’t killed off during the opponent’s turn, they can charge in swinging, burrow to deep strike objectives or units later, or in the case of opponents locking them in close combat, can fall back and charge in again thanks to Kraken.

Kronos detachment uses the lictor and ripper swarms to turn off enemy psykers thanks to Deepest Shadow. Also good for holding objectives. The termagants are mostly here because I needed one more troop choice to fill out the battalion. I don’t know what would be better here. Exocrine loves Kronos because it doesn’t need to move very often. Neurothrope are mostly for Smite spamming, but could turn off enemy psykers if they get close. I’ll probably leave one back to keep the exocrine in synapse range.

[acehilator]

Is this all the models you own? Tervigon is not worth it for a measly 24 Termagants. I love running mine too, but you need at least 60 Gants to get any kind of mileage out of her. If you have to use her, at least put her in one detachment with all your Gants. Make one of the Neurotrophes your Warlord to deny your opponent getting Slay the Warlord easily. Also not sure if Kronos is the right Hivefleet for the second Batallion just for the one Exocrine, should be Jormungandr or Leviathan. Move the Tervigon and the Gants to that detachment, scrap the Lictor, one Neurotrophe and one Ripper unit.

[drujeful]

I do have some gargoyles that I never finished putting together so I might have like ten of those. If I were to buy any sets to upgrade this, where should I start? I’m not very competitive at the moment and for who I play with, the mawloc and tervigon have been a lot of fun, but I’m open to adjusting as recommended. I do like your idea of switching away from Kronos given what I have.

[acehilator]

More Gants. A second HT with wings. Some Biovores. Hive Guard.

Basic Kronos shooty Spearhead detachment making use of the rerolling 1s:

Neurotrophe
Biovore
Biovore
Biovore
6x Hive Guard with Impaler Cannons

Could maybe add the Exocrine too, or keep it in the Leviathan/Jormungandr Batallion for a more defensive approach. Also, the Jormungandr Warlord trait is always worth a look, depending on the tables you play on. Mind the short range, though.

[drujeful]

Where would the second Flyrant fit? Based on your first reply, I was considering Kraken battalion with Neurothrope and Broodlord HQ, then two units of Genestealers and a unit of Hormagaunts. Then either Leviathan or Jormungandr battalion with Flyrant and Tervigon, then two bigger units of Termagants and a unit of Rippers. I'd put my Exocrine and mawloc in that battalion. I'm also considering changing my second mawloc to be a trygon since I'm sure I could fiddle around with green stuff enough to make the change. If I have the cash, that spearhead looks pretty fun. Is this new idea looking a bit better?

[acehilator]

Something along those lines:

Kraken Batallion
Flyrant (Chameleonic Evolution, double Devs + MRC or HVC/Miasma Cannon + MRC)
Flyrant (use Broodlord for now)
Stealers (didn't catch it before, remove the Flesh Hooks imho)
Stealers
Gaunts (or Rippers if low on points)

Jormungandr Batallion
Neurotrophe (Warlord)
Tervigon (remember that now with the Codex the Tervigon spawns new Gants at the start of the movement phase, which is a bit annoying)
Gants (minimum 10 Fleshborers in both units, and as many Devourers as possible)
Gants (maybe use unequal units, so the larger one with more Devourers can use the "shoot twice" stratagem to better effect)
Rippers
Exocrine

Didn't check points, leftover points: Gants > Stealers > Gaunts.

With the huge buffs to the HT the Broodlord lost quite a bit of steam, so he is the first to go.

[drujeful]

Alright I did some reorganizing on BattleScribe with your suggestions because I really like where they're going. I have a handful of questions/notes if you don't mind addressing them (sorry, I'm really new to 8th edition and want to make sure I've got a pretty optimized list for what I own and can easily get). Sorry for being annoying, I just know the wife will kill me if I shelf models she worked hard on painting.

• I currently have I think 13 Hormagaunts all painted and based which I don't really want to waste and since I don't own 60 Termagants yet, I went with 51 Gants and 20 Gaunts in the list for now. As I play and restructure things, maybe I'll be more willing to shelf the Gaunts. Would it be terrible dropping to 10 Hormagaunts so I can fit more Termagants in? I would lose the 20+ model reroll wounds ability. Would that be a big deal to lose?
• I could probably drop the Trygon since it's not painted yet, but the Mawloc is and I personally have a blast with Terror from the Deep. Do you think the Mawloc would be alright in this list or should I try to see if my opponents are okay with a counts-as Trygon instead? 
• Why did you recommend removing Flesh Hooks from the Genestealers? Are they not really worth the extra shooting before fighting? Is it just an extra 16 points that I could use for more Termagants?

(Edit: Forgot to add Chameleonic Mutation to Flyrant)


++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Tyranids) [65 PL, 1020pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Hive Fleet: Kraken

+ Heavy Support +

Trygon [8 PL, 174pts]: Adrenal Glands, 3x Massive Scything Talons, Toxinspike

+ HQ +

Broodlord [8 PL, 162pts]: Monstrous Rending Claws, Power: Catalyst

Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 184pts]: Chameleonic Mutation, Monstrous Rending Claws, Power: Catalyst, Power: Paroxysm, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings

+ Troops +

Genestealers [16 PL, 200pts]: 4x Acid Maw, 4x Flesh Hooks
. 16x Genestealer: 16x Rending Claws

Genestealers [16 PL, 200pts]: 4x Acid Maw, 4x Flesh Hooks
. 16x Genestealer: 16x Rending Claws

Hormagaunts [6 PL, 100pts]: 20x Hormagaunt

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Tyranids) [54 PL, 979pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Hive Fleet: Jormungandr

+ Heavy Support +

Exocrine [11 PL, 216pts]

Mawloc [6 PL, 105pts]: Prehensile Pincer Tail, Toxin Sacs

+ HQ +

Neurothrope [4 PL, 70pts]: Power: Psychic Scream, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Adaptive Biology

Tervigon [13 PL, 243pts]: Massive Scything Talons, Power: Catalyst, Stinger Salvo

+ Troops +

Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]: 3x Ripper Swarm

Termagants [9 PL, 168pts]
. 15x Termagant (Devourer): 15x Devourer
. 12x Termagant (Fleshborer)

Termagants [9 PL, 144pts]
. 12x Termagant (Devourer): 12x Devourer
. 12x Termagant (Fleshborer)

++ Total: [119 PL, 1999pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

[acehilator]

You get your wife to paint your miniatures? Damn, good for you that you wifed her already

- Gaunts are there for tying up enemy units in melee and being a PITA all over the board, not for damage. The reroll does not really matter, but you going to have some free points anyways, see below.

- Totally forgot about the Trygon, yes drop it like it's hot. Like the Broodlord, it is a victim of the Index -> Codex progression. Generally speaking the only payload worth transporting are 30 Gants with Devourers for 180 shots with the "shoot twice" stratagem, but that is another kind of list and does not really work together with the Tervigon. Slot the second Mawloc back in, and lose the TS on both Mawlocs (they should't be attacking multi-wound stuff, and if they get enganged by multi-wound enemies, who cares).

- If the Genestealers are not getting totally and brutally shot up while moving in, they murder most stuff they touch anyways, and those targets that don't die to them are not going to be impressed by the few additional shots.

- Like I said, use the open points for more small gribblies if possible (make sure to use every single Devourer Termagant you own, lol).

- Do you play on tables without any terrain that gives cover? Even if it is only a few pieces on average, the Jormungandr Warlord trait (Insidious Threat) is going to be more useful than any other WL trait (remember that the Neurotrophe heals itself when it kills stuff with Smite - which it will - so getting hit by sniper fire is not really a problem). You are not going to lose it unless you get essentially tabled. Just put it next to the Tervigon and move them both to the center of the table with the Termagant units. Onslaught helps if you need to Advance to get into range to shoot (the Devourers, the Fleshborer Gants are only there as ablative armor).

[drujeful]

Yeah, my wife was already painting a lot on canvas and so I suggested she paint my miniatures, which she absolutely loved. In fact, she loved painting them so much she decided to get into the game and bought a bunch of Aeldari stuff. She's kind of awesome.

Switching the Trygon back to a second Mawloc and dropping the TS saved me a good almost 70 points. That's great! With that, I was able to jump back up to the full 30 of each unit. Right now, I'm pretty evenly split half and half on models with Devourers and models with Fleshborers. I do have some Devourers left over on the plastic sheets so if I buy two packs of Termagants, I could probably use the extra Devourers I already have instead of doing an even split. I'll have to see exactly what numbers I can do. Is it better to do a full unit of Devilgants or is a split leaning toward Devs better for both units? Running the results in BattleScribe, it looks like if I go 18 Devilgants and 12 Fleshgants in each unit, I get exactly 2000 points so I'll see if I have enough Devourers for that. Of course eventually if I switch the Broodlord for another Flyrant, it might mess up my numbers.

At home, I don't have much terrain yet, but my wife wants to make some (she's really artistically inclined and loves making things). But when I go to my local game store and play, they have all kinds of terrain for tables that range in city battles, forests, and alien landscapes with crashed vehicles. Would you recommend switching the Neurothrope to Onslaught instead of Psychic Scream, or the Tervigon instead of Catalyst?

[acehilator]

I found that 20 Devs/10 FB are the theoretical "perfect" composition for Gant units backed up by a Tervigon. No matter how many you lose, you will always be able to refill all that the Tervigon could, and 60 Dev shots is enough firepower to warrant spending 2 CP on "shoot twice" if a nice situation presents itself (especially with Insidious Threat, no place to run, no place to hide... I play on tables with only few LoS blockers but lots of stuff that grants cover, that WL trait is pure gold for me). With 32 Stealers and a Gaunt blob running all over the board your opponent's anti-infantry firepower is going to be hard-pressed to make a dent in your Gant units. For now, just run what you have, and reduce the number of Gaunts later if you need the points for a few more Dev Gants.

I like running my Neurotrophe with Scream + Dominion. Not going to be in range T1 sometimes, but every turn after, and seeing that psychic powers are it's only method of dealing damage, I like having both damage powers on it. Dominion for backup Synapse if your units end up scattered and out of regular Synapse range. Definitely The Horror + Catalyst on the HT (The Horror is sooo good, and the HT is able to reach all important targets for it). Second Catalyst on the Tervigon I think, to cast on the Exocrine or itself after the HT is dead. Paroxism or Onslaught on the Broodlord I guess. Psychic power selection is tricky, there is no obvious "correct" way to do it.

[No One]

acehilator said:

I like running my Neurotrophe with Scream + Dominion. Not going to be in range T1 sometimes, but every turn after, and seeing that psychic powers are it's only method of dealing damage, I like having both damage powers on it. Dominion for backup Synapse if your units end up scattered and out of regular Synapse range.

Neuro only knows one power+smite.

For the list, looks pretty good.

drujeful said:

Why did you recommend removing Flesh Hooks from the Genestealers? Are they not really worth the extra shooting before fighting? Is it just an extra 16 points that I could use for more Termagants?

It's 2 shots at BS4+, with 6" range at S4 AP0. The damage isn't great, and the range means it's not going to fire much. Sure it's only 2 pts: but those 16 pts could be 4 devourers. It's actually similar output, except 18" range and terv vs 6" range and footslogging.

Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 184pts]: Chameleonic Mutation, Monstrous Rending Claws, Power: Catalyst, Power: Paroxysm, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings

Probably could do with adrenal glands and ideally toxin sacs. As noted above, horror is great and you should really be taking it every game. Paroxysm is a tad situational (requires facing a melee army essentially), and still often worse than horror. You shouldn't have that many catalysts: you can only cast one. Back ups are good for the important powers. 3 back ups when you haven't even got all of the good powers?

Also, unless your group house rules otherwise, you don't need to specify warlord traits and psychic powers at list building: this means you can have pretty good flexibility with powers.

[drujeful]

By dropping the Flesh Hooks, I was able to jump up to 20/10 split on Termagants. I think that'll be good. I might have to see what else I could trim to get Adrenal Glands and/or Toxin Sacs on the Flyrant.

Also, unless your group house rules otherwise, you don't need to specify warlord traits and psychic powers at list building: this means you can have pretty good flexibility with powers.

I hadn't realized this was the case, thanks for letting me know!

Thanks for the help guys, I'm feeling pretty good about this new Kraken/Jormungandr list as it's looking now. 

[acehilator]

Ah good catch on the Neurotrophe, I always mix up that it can cast two powers but knows only one.

But still not a fan of TS on HTs, not enough attacks to be worth it, imho.

/edit: The list is going to be totally fine for regular play, its weakness are tanks, especially T8 like Land Raiders and Russes. Gotta cope as best you can, badtouch them with Gaunts or Mawlocs, whatever. Infantry is just going to wither. Playing the objective game is going to be the general gameplan against vehicle-heavy armies.