Dakka Fex or Mixxed Load out Fex?

[shadowfinder]

I been running Dakka fex's a lot and have been loving them. But one issue I have found with running a Kraken list is the can't fight them-selves out of a paper bag. I had one go 5 assault rounds with 7 man Eldar rangers. It was sad.

Is it worth it to have 12 shot's hitting on 3's or 4's when advancing? Or should I just not charge them in to combat?

What fex is better?

[kazetanade]

You should definitely not charge them into combat. But you should have already known that shadow.

As for better or not - its up for discussion, everything works right now. Even maybe the dakkafex with melee head for thatd ranger problem.

[harleyxjguy]

Why even run a Dakka Fex?

Wouldn't a Dakka Flyrant do it Better?

Then just run melee Fexen.

[kazetanade]

Dec 29, 2017 3:18:47 GMT harleyxjguy said:

Why even run a Dakka Fex?

Wouldn't a Dakka Flyrant do it Better?

Then just run melee Fexen.

Because you can get 2 Dakkafexen for the price of 1.3 or whatever fraction Dakkaflyrant, and all the weaknesses that come with it.

Also because you can have BOTH dakkafexen and dakkaflyrants.

Also because melee fexen take awhile to get into effective range, at least 1 turn more than dakka does.

Then whoever you're fighting has to ask himself if he rather shoot at 110 point fexen or 198 pt Flyrants with invuls, instead of thinking he'll shoot the flyrants and kite the fexes.

[harleyxjguy]

Dec 29, 2017 3:52:44 GMT kazetanade said:

Dec 29, 2017 3:18:47 GMT harleyxjguy said:

Why even run a Dakka Fex?

Wouldn't a Dakka Flyrant do it Better?

Then just run melee Fexen.

Because you can get 2 Dakkafexen for the price of 1.3 or whatever fraction Dakkaflyrant, and all the weaknesses that come with it.

Also because you can have BOTH dakkafexen and dakkaflyrants.

Also because melee fexen take awhile to get into effective range, at least 1 turn more than dakka does.

Then whoever you're fighting has to ask himself if he rather shoot at 110 point fexen or 198 pt Flyrants with invuls, instead of thinking he'll shoot the flyrants and kite the fexes.

Well said.

Only thing I would like to add is that with the right list there will be no Fex kiting.

I run a Kraken list that has almost everything on the enemy right away. Maybe a little VS an all fly list? Is there such a thing these days?

[kazetanade]

Dec 29, 2017 11:39:56 GMT harleyxjguy said:

Dec 29, 2017 3:52:44 GMT kazetanade said:

Because you can get 2 Dakkafexen for the price of 1.3 or whatever fraction Dakkaflyrant, and all the weaknesses that come with it.

Also because you can have BOTH dakkafexen and dakkaflyrants.

Also because melee fexen take awhile to get into effective range, at least 1 turn more than dakka does.

Then whoever you're fighting has to ask himself if he rather shoot at 110 point fexen or 198 pt Flyrants with invuls, instead of thinking he'll shoot the flyrants and kite the fexes.

Well said.

Only thing I would like to add is that with the right list there will be no Fex kiting.

I run a Kraken list that has almost everything on the enemy right away. Maybe a little VS an all fly list? Is there such a thing these days?

Not always, but the day you're looking at a mostly 16-24" move army with only melee Fexes left on the table then you're gonna feel it.

Its not a common case right now as i know it, but it did happen for me about 2 weeks back.

[harleyxjguy]

Dec 29, 2017 12:03:52 GMT kazetanade said:

Dec 29, 2017 11:39:56 GMT harleyxjguy said:

Well said.

Only thing I would like to add is that with the right list there will be no Fex kiting.

I run a Kraken list that has almost everything on the enemy right away. Maybe a little VS an all fly list? Is there such a thing these days?

Not always, but the day you're looking at a mostly 16-24" move army with only melee Fexes left on the table then you're gonna feel it.

Its not a common case right now as i know it, but it did happen for me about 2 weeks back.

Maybe a case for hybrid Fex?

Guessing no because I think hybrid Fex is just bad.

[acehilator]

Really no case for the hybrid Fex. Bubblewrap or 1-2 melee Fexes sprinkled in for counter-charge duty and acting as a deterrent would be more effective imho. For the LOLZ, use OOE for that?

[kazetanade]

Dec 29, 2017 12:24:37 GMT harleyxjguy said:

Dec 29, 2017 12:03:52 GMT kazetanade said:

Not always, but the day you're looking at a mostly 16-24" move army with only melee Fexes left on the table then you're gonna feel it.

Its not a common case right now as i know it, but it did happen for me about 2 weeks back.

Maybe a case for hybrid Fex?

Guessing no because I think hybrid Fex is just bad.

I tried hybrid Fexes in 1k when i got kited, they did alright. I would have died by being charged by tanks and bikes with dakkafexes (eldar all fly, so they do the flyrant dance with you) and i would have been kited with melee Fexes. In fact, that is exactly what happened because only OOE on the board vs 3 min squad bikes was left by t3, so they just kept kiting and running away. (That was a fun bloodbath).

I would say really just try it out sometime in multiples. I'd still use the OOE spearhead hybrid stampede in 2k for a Nidzilla base list.

[shadowfinder]

Dec 29, 2017 2:59:43 GMT kazetanade said:

You should definitely not charge them into combat. But you should have already known that shadow.

As for better or not - its up for discussion, everything works right now. Even maybe the dakkafex with melee head for thatd ranger problem.

Well when you have 45 rangers shooting you every turn. It helps to keep them from shooting. I tied up 3 unit of with 8 guys in them, with the 3 dakkafex's most of the game. Shooting rangers in cover is not the best thing.

The melee head takes away from the better shooting. So not worth it i feel.

Was looking at the thornback but it can't get -1 to hit. Making it a sub par choice in my mind for a melee shooting hybrid. 12 shots hitting on 3 was good last edtion... Is it still good in this edtion. Going from 24 to 12 is big. But we would have killed for just 12 in on fex's last edtion or in the index.

[kazetanade]

Dec 29, 2017 16:54:13 GMT shadowfinder said:

Dec 29, 2017 2:59:43 GMT kazetanade said:

You should definitely not charge them into combat. But you should have already known that shadow.

As for better or not - its up for discussion, everything works right now. Even maybe the dakkafex with melee head for thatd ranger problem.

Well when you have 45 rangers shooting you every turn. It helps to keep them from shooting. I tied up 3 unit of with 8 guys in them, with the 3 dakkafex's most of the game. Shooting rangers in cover is not the best thing.

The melee head takes away from the better shooting. So not worth it i feel.

Was looking at the thornback but it can't get -1 to hit. Making it a sub par choice in my mind for a melee shooting hybrid. 12 shots hitting on 3 was good last edtion... Is it still good in this edtion. Going from 24 to 12 is big. But we would have killed for just 12 in on fex's last edtion or in the index.

well last edition, 12 shots on 3+ meant 10hits (TL), and against infantry it was 8 saves. This edition, 12 shots is 8 hits that wound on 3+ for less than 6 saves. Is it a big enough difference for you?

My experience so far has been 12 shots is still really good, but instead of melee i found having more shots to be better than having melee. But to be fair a lot of my concepts have been either tanking damage or alphastrikes, where it takes too long to reach (hence guns are better) or its deepstruck in and liable fail charge. For the walkers i find if i moved really fast (and hence having secured charges) then hybrid was worth it, but on deepstriking flyrants the melee wasn't worth it as i wanted maximum impact on arrival.

About the MAW - I think the difference is 3 hits for 24 shots. That's 2 saves and 1 failed, trading for the ability to fight out of a paper bag. Giga would say dont charge them, but your scenario is the exact reason why i think they're useful.

[shadowfinder]

Dec 29, 2017 17:27:51 GMT kazetanade said:

Dec 29, 2017 16:54:13 GMT shadowfinder said:

Well when you have 45 rangers shooting you every turn. It helps to keep them from shooting. I tied up 3 unit of with 8 guys in them, with the 3 dakkafex's most of the game. Shooting rangers in cover is not the best thing.

The melee head takes away from the better shooting. So not worth it i feel.

Was looking at the thornback but it can't get -1 to hit. Making it a sub par choice in my mind for a melee shooting hybrid. 12 shots hitting on 3 was good last edtion... Is it still good in this edtion. Going from 24 to 12 is big. But we would have killed for just 12 in on fex's last edtion or in the index.

well last edition, 12 shots on 3+ meant 10hits (TL), and against infantry it was 8 saves. This edition, 12 shots is 8 hits that wound on 3+ for less than 6 saves. Is it a big enough difference for you?

My experience so far has been 12 shots is still really good, but instead of melee i found having more shots to be better than having melee. But to be fair a lot of my concepts have been either tanking damage or alphastrikes, where it takes too long to reach (hence guns are better) or its deepstruck in and liable fail charge. For the walkers i find if i moved really fast (and hence having secured charges) then hybrid was worth it, but on deepstriking flyrants the melee wasn't worth it as i wanted maximum impact on arrival.

About the MAW - I think the difference is 3 hits for 24 shots. That's 2 saves and 1 failed, trading for the ability to fight out of a paper bag. Giga would say dont charge them, but your scenario is the exact reason why i think they're useful.

Yah the paper Bag has only happened a few times. It is irritating when does though.

I will play it both way the next few week to see if the less shots are a big impact.

All the shooting is very nice.

Ran a list with 3 dakka fex and two Dakka Tyrants and it was fun. I lost two games at the tournament because I couldn't kill things in combat with the tyrants or the fex's.

[Kuku]

Played 2 games today, with 3 meleefexes (most basic version, 82 pts for dual scy and nothing else), 3 dakkafexes (Enhanced senses, spores, 2*devourers & HVC for 126 pts) and OldOneEye (and some other stuff, Dakkaflyrants and biovores mostly). They did a very good job : the melee fexes draw almost all the attention from the dakkafexes, which did a lot of damage in the long run and ended both games unharmed.

I think going the hybrid way isn't the best option. If you don't mind playing multiple hive fleets, you can go Kraken Meleefexes with Jormungandr Dakkafexes and you have the best of both worlds.

[mule]

Dec 29, 2017 12:03:52 GMT kazetanade said:

Dec 29, 2017 11:39:56 GMT harleyxjguy said:

Well said.

Only thing I would like to add is that with the right list there will be no Fex kiting.

I run a Kraken list that has almost everything on the enemy right away. Maybe a little VS an all fly list? Is there such a thing these days?

Not always, but the day you're looking at a mostly 16-24" move army with only melee Fexes left on the table then you're gonna feel it.

Its not a common case right now as i know it, but it did happen for me about 2 weeks back.

Only flying units should kite us. Biovores are cheap and great, you can lock units down very easily with them.

[mule]

Dec 29, 2017 21:18:12 GMT Kuku said:

Played 2 games today, with 3 meleefexes (most basic version, 82 pts for dual scy and nothing else), 3 dakkafexes (Enhanced senses, spores, 2*devourers & HVC for 126 pts) and OldOneEye (and some other stuff, Dakkaflyrants and biovores mostly). They did a very good job : the melee fexes draw almost all the attention from the dakkafexes, which did a lot of damage in the long run and ended both games unharmed.

I think going the hybrid way isn't the best option. If you don't mind playing multiple hive fleets, you can go Kraken Meleefexes with Jormungandr Dakkafexes and you have the best of both worlds.

The problem is that double scytal is less effective than one scytal with devourers or hvc and tusks.

The extra points youre dumping into the second set can allow you to get a pair of devourers. Lets say you cut the 20 points per fex that means youre basically getting another carnifex for every 4 you field. Instead of taking that 5th carnifex your other carnifex can get 48 s6 shots, which is probably more than the 5th fex will get you.