Dirty allies.

[harleyxjguy]

I know this has been talked about elsewhere on this forum but I was digging through some old models and found a long forgotten Primus model.

This combined with an IG squad I use as Cultists in my Chaos Army and some Genestealers makes for what I think is a dirty little ally contingent for my Tyranids.

Primus and the 18 Genestealers CA using the Stratagem to roll extra dice and the Primus's re rolls to deploy elbow deep into something while the IG Commander and his Squad hide on a backfield objective and farm me a metric ton of Command Points.

Is it legal to have the AM Commander be my Warlord?



++ Patrol Detachment (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [5 PL, 77pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Gametype: Matched

Regiment: Cadian

+ Troops +

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 47pts]
. 8x Guardsman
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Flamer
. Sergeant: Laspistol

+ HQ +

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Grand Strategist, Kurov's Aquila, Laspistol, Warlord

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Tyranids - Genestealer Cults) [28 PL, 496pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Cult Ambush Table

+ HQ +

Primus [4 PL, 76pts]: Bonesword

+ Elites +

Purestrain Genestealers [4 PL, 75pts]: 5x Purestrain Genestealer, 5x Purestrain Talons

Purestrain Genestealers [4 PL, 75pts]: 5x Purestrain Genestealer, 5x Purestrain Talons

Purestrain Genestealers [16 PL, 270pts]: 18x Purestrain Genestealer, 18x Purestrain Talons

++ Total: [33 PL, 573pts] ++

[c4790m]

I’m planning on doing something similar, I don’t see any reason why you can’t do this. I’d recommend changing the vanguard to a supreme command and replace the 5-man stealer squads with 2 magus, gets you far better utility.

[harleyxjguy]

Dec 27, 2017 23:48:35 GMT c4790m said:

I’m planning on doing something similar, I don’t see any reason why you can’t do this. I’d recommend changing the vanguard to a supreme command and replace the 5-man stealer squads with 2 magus, gets you far better utility.

Magus for the psychic powers?

[Hive Bahamut]

Magus are hilariously, and easily the best part of GSC. Mass Hypnosis is amazing.. Easily my favourite power in the game.

Mind Control is such a terror tactic that the opponent usually dumps more than enough in to kill the Magus. I watch non psyker armies deny this all the time on a 4+ though... Only ever had it kill something once.

Might From Beyond is a sleeper power. S5 Purestrains with 5A each? Yes please. Need to crack open that vehicle? S12 Aberrants might help. 14 if you are saucy and use the relic.

Ironically now that Nids have their codex I'm back to my purist lists. Determined to prove that GSC wasn't just a marketing scheme to get Nid players to buy Imperial models, after a strong release, that was reigned in to sell Guard allies.

Idiot Nid player: "Hey this is kind of like that guard unit.. Maybe I'll just pick up a box.."

GW: Look! Another One! Haha haha.. And you said the bait and switch WOULDN'T work.. Now pay up."

To add something to the topic:

GSC seems to be built with a firebase missing. You take Nids or AM to plug the gap. Hive Guard/Exocrine/Tyrannofex with Neuro or Manticore/Wyvern/Basilisk with Commander seem to be the most obvious solutions to me. Nudist Leman Russ/Rock-grinders is NOT the answer. I will keep trying to prove myself wrong though.

I can't put myself to use an AM contingent.. I feel like.. I was just forced to bad touch with someone. Not like in a casual drunk way either, like full on finger in the belly button, deep moan creepy kind.

[dangsc]

Dec 27, 2017 20:28:03 GMT harleyxjguy said:

Is it legal to have the AM Commander be my Warlord?

Your army faction cannot be AM; you "ignore the AM units when choosing your army's faction" - I don't have my books handy but I don't think this affects warlord choice (check it though, because I could very well be wrong).

But this...

Regiment: Cadian

...is not legal. You regiment must be "Brood Brothers", so you cannot access any regiment specific rules (Brood Brothers-specific rules will be in the GSC codex). Grand strategist and Kurov's Aquila are not regiment specific though, so that's fine assuming the warlord choice is legal.

[cypheon]

Warlord only cares about being
A) battleforged

And

B) a mono-faction detachment to choose a warlord from (like AM).

[No One]

dangsc said:

Your army faction cannot be AM; you "ignore the AM units when choosing your army's faction" - I don't have my books handy but I don't think this affects warlord choice (check it though, because I could very well be wrong).

Huh. Hadn't even considered that bit.

THE WARLORD said:

Once you have mustered your army, nominate one of your models to be your Warlord.
If your Warlord is a Character, it can use a Warlord Trait – a preferred tactic or personal ability that marks them out amongst their peers. Immediately before either player starts to deploy their army, you can roll on the Warlord Trait table here to determine what Warlord Trait your Warlord has. Alternatively, choose the trait that most suits your Warlord’s temperament or style of war.

Nothing about army faction in choosing your warlord.

ARMY FACTION said:

All of the units in a matched play army, with the exception of those that are UNALIGNED, must have at least one Faction keyword in common (e.g. IMPERIUM
or CHAOS), even though they may be in different Detachments.

Nothing about warlord in army faction.

If a <REGIMENT>, MILITARUM TEMPESTUS or OFFICIO PREFECTUS CHARACTER is your Warlord, they can generate a Warlord Trait from the following table instead of the one in the
Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.

And all good on the IG front.

Edit:

cypheon said:

Warlord only cares about being
A) battleforged

And

B) a mono-faction detachment to choose a warlord from (like AM).

Nope and nope (well, sort of: it just can't generate AM WL traits for B).

[blastarasta]

You know when I'm "brain storming" tournament lists at the moment. I mess around with a pure Tyranids lists but I eventually just come back to a small cult detachment to unlock a guard one..

the cheapest/ best way I think to unlock this is an auxillary support with a magus in with power of choice..

my guard detachment will have cheap shooty units and the nids will have aggressive forward units such as stealers/ flyrants etc..

interested to hear if anyone else looks at this.. when you have an idea but don't see anyone else really having a go at it kinda makes me think it must be (please do not swear) or we would see it more..

[cypheon]

Coulda sworn both traits and relics said something about BF detachments, but on rereading, you are right... they both only care about the faction of the model chosen, not detachments or even BF. Note that this happens semifrequently on my late night posts as i am at work without books to quote from in front of me.

As to the other posts on here:

The idea of your warlord being tied to your army faction is just a holdover from 7th and having to nominate a primary detachment. You can, if you wanted, run a 1900pt tyranid brigade, 1 aux gsc magus, 1 aux AM officer... and still use the officer as your warlord to benefit from the trait, and give him the cp generating relic. Though each aux detachment is -1 cp.

[cypheon]

Dec 28, 2017 13:26:31 GMT blastarasta said:

You know when I'm "brain storming" tournament lists at the moment. I mess around with a pure Tyranids lists but I eventually just come back to a small cult detachment to unlock a guard one..

the cheapest/ best way I think to unlock this is an auxillary support with a magus in with power of choice..

my guard detachment will have cheap shooty units and the nids will have aggressive forward units such as stealers/ flyrants etc..

interested to hear if anyone else looks at this.. when you have an idea but don't see anyone else really having a go at it kinda makes me think it must be (please do not swear) or we would see it more..

You don't see it right now because index GSC is, largely, insultingly bad. The characters commit suicide on a 4+ if they get punched by a grot while >3" away from another gsc unit. The lack of faq/errata for Unquestioning Loyalty is very concerning as it, when combined with horrible ca/rtts mechanics, has killed the faction for 8th so far.

But, the main reason no ome talks about allies in competitive play? We (FINALLY!!!) don't need them any more. Our codex has enough built in shenanigans as is to play, have fun, and have a chance at winning without buying a second codex. Trying to fit in those mortar tanks just feels likeyou are wasting points better spent on Kraken GS/Flyrants now.

[blastarasta]

Dec 28, 2017 15:05:58 GMT cypheon said:

Dec 28, 2017 13:26:31 GMT blastarasta said:

You know when I'm "brain storming" tournament lists at the moment. I mess around with a pure Tyranids lists but I eventually just come back to a small cult detachment to unlock a guard one..

the cheapest/ best way I think to unlock this is an auxillary support with a magus in with power of choice..

my guard detachment will have cheap shooty units and the nids will have aggressive forward units such as stealers/ flyrants etc..

interested to hear if anyone else looks at this.. when you have an idea but don't see anyone else really having a go at it kinda makes me think it must be (please do not swear) or we would see it more..

You don't see it right now because index GSC is, largely, insultingly bad. The characters commit suicide on a 4+ if they get punched by a grot while >3" away from another gsc unit. The lack of faq/errata for Unquestioning Loyalty is very concerning as it, when combined with horrible ca/rtts mechanics, has killed the faction for 8th so far.

But, the main reason no ome talks about allies in competitive play? We (FINALLY!!!) don't need them any more. Our codex has enough built in shenanigans as is to play, have fun, and have a chance at winning without buying a second codex. Trying to fit in those mortar tanks just feels likeyou are wasting points better spent on Kraken GS/Flyrants now.

I'm not talking about so much cult but the guard element...

Guard are Tier 1 but struggle with movement and board control which Nids excel at..

The trick is to pick units from the guard dex that don't rely on REGIMENT traits such as plasma scions, tank commanders etc.. Anything that synergises well with Orders does a job.. 

to top it all off you can have the CP farm (grand stragist and aquilla) that Nids so desperately need. Its almost a perfect fit for a "tax" of a 70 something point magus that can take over a shadowsword, stormraven etc.. 

[dangsc]

Dec 28, 2017 15:05:58 GMT cypheon said:

The characters commit suicide on a 4+ if they get punched by a grot while >3" away from another gsc unit. The lack of faq/errata for Unquestioning Loyalty is very concerning

It's not quite that bad, UL will only instagib models who are within 3" of a GSC character that takes a wound (not 3" from any GSC unit). I agree it is a terribly flawed rule, but if you keep your characters spread out then it's only really a problem for aberrants coming in with a primus - and if you're careful you can avoid it because the primus buff aura has longer range than UL.

[oatmello]

So can you or can you not take regiment for AM detachment if you are using blood brothers rule?

[blastarasta]

Dec 28, 2017 19:46:27 GMT oatmello said:

So can you or can you not take regiment for AM detachment if you are using blood brothers rule?

No - BROOD BROTHERS is your regiment

[cypheon]

Dec 28, 2017 18:15:28 GMT dangsc said:

It's not quite that bad, UL will only instagib models who are within 3" of a GSC character that takes a wound (not 3" from any GSC unit). I agree it is a terribly flawed rule, but if you keep your characters spread out then it's only really a problem for aberrants coming in with a primus - and if you're careful you can avoid it because the primus buff aura has longer range than UL.

It is that bad. A patriarch counts as a gsc infantry unit within 3" of itself, so if it takes a single wound while more than 3" from another gsc infantry model, 4+ auto kills the patriarch. Since previous posters wanted to bring a single magus with no infantry support, that is an important rule to understand, as it only takes one sniper, or grot punch, to kill that character. But rolling out a battalion with magi and 30 neophytes works a lot better, and lets the neophytes Deny.


Now, for the previous question on not seeing AM: largely because gsc is so poorly thought out as a tax unit, and losing regiment rules on top of that. Even militarum tempestus can not us their "regiment" rule, despite not having a regiment that changes.

The difference in having regiment rules and stratagems vs not having them is like night and day. Running naked am units with no bonuses is a waste of points, paint, and money, when all three resources could go into more kraken, kronos, jorm, etc etc.