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Post by able on Oct 3, 2017 18:45:26 GMT
Mine starts with competitive pricing, but a few changes would be nice.
Malaceptor as an HQ choice, and far cheaper. A bit more dangerous would be nice, but a cheap synapse hardpoint works too. Venomthropes and Zoantropes as one unit. They don't even need to be cheaper if we can get synapse, miasma, and psykic from one solid support unit. Wargear options for the prime. The prime is not bad as a chassis, comparable to a space marine captain. Higher T, S, and wounds, but no invuln. The problem is that the captain is pulling a thunder hammer and combi melta to the prime's deathspitter and boneswords. Crushing claws and a shock cannon and I would be rocking the prime. Some Ap, and multi wounds from somewhere. I would much prefer slimer maggots to do 2 damage to +2 strength. If brainleech did a flat 3 there would at least be a reason to take them. Flat 3 attacks from the thresher scythe, and the ability to take one on a tyrant. A lighter and cheaper long range option pair to build a firebase carnifex would be nice too. While on the fex, some way to get them up the field. They are too small to efficiently pod or hive commander, and unit based stratagems and powers will only work on one. 'Devestator' warrior squads, for backline synapse that does more than just provide synapse. Synapse on hive guard could work too. Currently we have no synapse the wants to be back there outside FW. A second 36" ranged option for a tyrant, together with a backup CC weapon to replace the tail could fit here too. Some reason for tyrants to want to walk. Weapon beast would go a long way to making a backline tyrant viable.
Some clarity as to where we pay for the synapse buff would be nice. I would like 2 price lists, one where we pay for it on the providers, the other on the recipients. That way you could run a warrior heavy list and not pay for synapse on non existant gants (because gants are priced assuming synapse so you don't pay it on the warriors), or a synapse light list and not be paying for synapse that you don't actually have (because synapse provider pays for the buff). A balanced list should work out the roughly the same price in either.
If the rules don't change, the litmus test will be the price of the fleshborer Tfex. It is now directly comparable to a leman russ punisher (demolisher). If the Tfex ends up any more than 10 pts more expensive I am going to be seriously pissed, and it will need to be less for me to be happy.
I'm really looking forward to more psykic powers, because I find having only 3 really limiting for match play. 3 Tyrants exhaust them even if they are all good. Good would be nice, but I'll be happy as long as they are decent.
We will see what we get though.
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Post by acehilator on Oct 3, 2017 20:01:16 GMT
Yeah Tfex vs Leman Russ is going to be interesting. Considering the abysmal main weapon options and lack of secondary weapons, it needs to end up cheaper than the Russ. "Better" melee and two more wounds do not make up for the difference in movement, or the missing range on the main weapons. Tfex with FBH is 202, Leman Russ with Punisher Gatling Cannon & HB is 150 now I think (dropped 10 points right?). So drop the Tfex to 120ish and it might be a deal.
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Post by c4790m on Oct 3, 2017 22:48:03 GMT
Wargear options for the prime. The prime is not bad as a chassis, comparable to a space marine captain. Higher T, S, and wounds, but no invuln. The problem is that the captain is pulling a thunder hammer and combi melta to the prime's deathspitter and boneswords. Crushing claws and a shock cannon and I would be rocking the prime. I'd love for the prime to be able to carry one of the hive guards impaler rifles, would make it perfect for the backfield synapse role. I don't know the pricing of SM captains, but it'd be great for it to be priced cheaper than a malanthrope, maybe similar in price to a magus/primus so we can have cheap HQs. Something I think would be really cool would be to have fleet adaptatations/chapter tactics use synapse as a conduit like "everything in synapse gains +1 advance and charge" or "everything within synapse gains rerolls 1s to hit in melee". Might be a bit too powerful though
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Post by parzaius on Oct 4, 2017 3:17:03 GMT
Venomthropes and Zoantropes as one unit. They don't even need to be cheaper if we can get synapse, miasma, and psykic from one solid support unit. That's an interesting suggestion. I don't think they're likely to phase out the one or the other, but (for the sake of argument) mixing the two would make a very useful elite indeed! Basically a squad-based version of the Malanthrope, but with the ability to fire off a Smite would be VERY appealing. I like it! That's also a fun idea. I was never really sure why our Warriors were limited to one heavy weapon per three models, when over factions have a "one heavy weapon per model" unit option. Heck, they could just make a Heavy version of warriors, like how Shrikes are Fast Attack versions. Let them triple dip on their Warrior boxes without having to spend a cent on new model production. A+ I would also like to see Weapon Beast spread more liberally around. You know what would be a great way to do it? Bio-morphs! Give 'em a second brain or something and turn your non-aerial tyrands and carnifexes into weapons platforms, if you like. I'm also looking forward to these. Hopefully we'll get Warp Blast back in some way, but that seems unlikely. Other than a multi-unit Catalyst and a fixed Onslaught, a dedicated psyker-hate spell would be nice. How about one that forces one of your units to exert themselves to the point of breaking? Inflicts d3 mortal wounds on the unit, but gives them all 2x strength for the turn or something. Something I think would be really cool would be to have fleet adaptatations/chapter tactics use synapse as a conduit like "everything in synapse gains +1 advance and charge" or "everything within synapse gains rerolls 1s to hit in melee". Might be a bit too powerful though Since Synapse is the signature feature of the faction, I don't think it's unreasonable for some rules or features to incorporate synapse into their area of effect. More over, Synapse is a resource we pay for and which is SUPER deniable by opponents who focus fire and snipers. I'd love to see some stuff weave itself into synapse, to give the enemy all the more reason to try to take those lynchpins out!
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Post by arapaima on Oct 4, 2017 8:12:47 GMT
1.Whack prehensile tail attack not taking up an attack move. 2. Swarmlord bonesabres reworked to do 3 damage and forces opponent to re-roll successfulnvulnerable saves. 3. Monstrous version of bio cannon gets AP -3 4. Trygon gets T-7 5. Monstrous scything talons gives +2 strength. 6. Monstrous crushing claws no longer -1 to hit. 7. Special rules that allow synapse creatures to be screened.
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Post by Iryan on Oct 4, 2017 8:42:26 GMT
For the Tervigon: The same "Psychic Barrier" as the Tyrant giving 5+ invuln save, plus a small points drop. For the Zoanthrope: A more fluid scaling of smite strength with unit size, as well as something that actually makes the unit good. Possibilities include raising wounds to 4, or letting you freely choose targets for the Smite, or both. For the Venomthrope: Sporecloud can cover anything that the malanthrope's can. Then something else to buff it that is not a points drop. Possibly raising wounds to 4. For the Maleceptor, let him cast powers on top of using his overload, and make the overload trigger during the combat phase so you have a better chance to be in a good position for it. Also, 4++. For the TGuard, a rework of its protective capabilities that makes it more useful and reliable. Also, a rule that allows it to move an additional 3'' so long asit is close to a friendly <Hive Fleet> character, so that it can actually keep up with the things it is supposed to protect. For the TFex, better BS, better guns, better rules. And then, if still necessary, point drops.
Some nice juicy psychic powers. For a lot of the monsters: Less brutal degradation. Looking at you, Mawloc. For monster characters: Some better way to protect them, at least the Tyrant. Be it through faction rules, big buffs to the TGuard, something. Better AP and/or damage for the venom cannons. No -1 to hit for the crushing claws. Interesting and useful changes to all the tail weapons (except thresher scythe that one is good the way it is). Totally not gonna happen but 4 wounds for all our medium-sized units that don't already have them. At least for TGuard and the thropes, please.
NOT removing Shrikes.
...tons of specific little changes I would like to see for various units and weapons, I am sure I missed several. But eh, not important.
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Post by necronartum on Oct 4, 2017 16:01:46 GMT
My wish list is relatively simple. Give us a balanced toolkit, even if some of it is situational.
With such a rich diversity of units to choose from, I don't want to be relegated to one or two effective cookie cutter builds. I want to feel pressed for choice.
I understand that there will always be a point optimal build, the game is forged on maths and probability. But having a 20:80 ratio of good:bad choices is too heavily weighted in the wrong direction.
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Post by infornography on Oct 4, 2017 20:58:47 GMT
My wish list is relatively simple. Give us a balanced toolkit, even if some of it is situational. With such a rich diversity of units to choose from, I don't want to be relegated to one or two effective cookie cutter builds. I want to feel pressed for choice. I understand that there will always be a point optimal build, the game is forged on maths and probability. But having a 20:80 ratio of good:bad choices is too heavily weighted in the wrong direction. Your wish is granted, now everything will be balanced to the might of the venomthrope unit. Sadly this might not be far off from what happens, but I am trying to stay hopeful.
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Post by N.I.B. on Oct 5, 2017 14:26:42 GMT
My pointless two cent;
This would give Tyranids some fairly unique flavour and give Tau and AM gunlines some well deserved problems.
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Post by calbanite on Oct 5, 2017 21:45:47 GMT
I could see Hive Tyrants or other "smart" synapse units generating an extra command point per turn. Balanced out by having to use truck loads of strategems to adapt on the fly.
Hive Tyrants, Broodlords, and Warrior Primes are all capable tacticians so 1 point extra on a 4+? Swarmy could get D3 back a turn with no roll.
I don't like being FORCED (yes forced because strategems are required to be competitive) to bring models I don't like to fill up battalions/brigades. It seems Cool Stuff (tm) is locked behind strategems in all the codices so far.
Regeneration for instance is probably going to be a strat instead of a bio-morph. I'm going to flip a forgeworld if that's the case.
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Post by lordoftheflyrants on Oct 6, 2017 2:34:40 GMT
Psychic Powers
Shadow of the Warp at twice the range of Synapse. Penalty applies to Deny the Witch rolls and stacks when in range of multiple creatures with SotW.
Horror, Catalyst and Onslaught should target 2 or even 3 units instead of just one since we can only use each once per turn.
New Powers could include +3 Toughness Buff, +3 A Buff, +1 Save Buff, Regeneration: Random number of Wounds for Monsters or models for infantry units.
General
T8 = T10, T7/6 = T9, T5 = T7, T4/3 = T5
Monster CC damage should carry over from model to model. A 5 meter 'Scything' Talon shouldn't stop because it hit one guy in a flak jacket. Exception Crushing Claws without a hit penalty.
Without any decent AP or number of reliable shots guns are currently useless.
HVC 4 shots, AP3 Stranglethorn 8 shots AP2 Venom 3 shots AP2 Barbed Strangler 6 shots AP2
Unit Specific
Walkrants need a deepstrike option. Burrowing or Chameleonic Skin. Also need Crushing Claws option.
When Swarmlord uses Hive Commander on himself, he also affects any Tyrant Guard Units within 3 inches.
Cheaper Prime with Wings option. Access to Hvy Cannons.
Cheaper Warriors/Shrikes?
Rippers/Skyslashers gain Leadership 10 and reroll failed Wounds. Piranha are to hungry to be scared.
Zoanthropes can "Share the Pain" to allocate Wounds taken to unwounded models like previous editions allowing their Spirit Leech ability to actually work.
Venomthropes can be broken up like Carnifexen after they are deployed.
Red Terror grants Synapse but not Shadow or any powers.
Deathleaper/Lictors cannot be Overwatched at all. When charging they can reroll both dice or just one at their option. Lightning Reflexes 5++.
Harpy/Crone. No more minimum move. T boost and Gun fixes will help a lot. Screech power makes all enemies with 12" fight after all your units have gone and prevents CP use to interrupt.
Carnifexen. T boost and Gun fixes. NO penalty to hit with Crushing Claws but claw damage doesn't carry over from model to model.
Mawloc. AP2 on some attacks. More Wounds.
Trygons. Cheaper. More Wounds. Shooting should work like Shock Cannons per fluff.
Toxicrene. Regain -1 to hit aura. Higher Strength. WS3?
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Post by parzaius on Oct 6, 2017 3:22:30 GMT
My pointless two cent; This would give Tyranids some fairly unique flavour and give Tau and AM gunlines some well deserved problems. I agree, that WOULD be pretty sweet. My thought is always: if we're not supposed to be a shooty army, why not give us more tools to make us actually scary in melee? That being said, I think a Strategem, spell, or character with that ability is more likely than an army-wide buff, but I like where your head's at. I could see Hive Tyrants or other "smart" synapse units generating an extra command point per turn. Balanced out by having to use truck loads of strategems to adapt on the fly. Hive Tyrants, Broodlords, and Warrior Primes are all capable tacticians so 1 point extra on a 4+? Swarmy could get D3 back a turn with no roll. I'm not sure how they'd balance it, but getting more CP is always a good thing. We've seen characters like Rowboat and Creed grant a static bonus, guys like Tallyman refund points, and codex-specific selections in AM generate bonus CP; so there's definitely a precedent for it. I'm definitely down with Swarmlord getting a "roll to generate bonus CP every turn" feature! Shadow of the Warp at twice the range of Synapse. Penalty applies to Deny the Witch rolls and stacks when in range of multiple creatures with SotW. Totally agree. Shadow in the Warp is a gigantic factor in the fluff, and having it actually impact the board would be fantastic. Or, at the very least, if you use them on a character, you can also target a non-character Unit within 3" of them. I'd love for a spell that has some kind of Regeneration/healing effect. All these AM characters can restore lost wounds to tanks, why not add some monstrous regeneration to the Nids? Ha hah, this is so obvious I never even thought of it. 100% yes. I'm not actually feeling you on this one. I agree that it'd be nice to use the Neurothrope, but if you could put 2 on each one, it'd be nearly impossible to kill that unit. Plus, it'd be a pain to track all the different wounds on a model by model basis. I'd rather the Neurothrope's effect just be able to bring back a dead Zoanthrope if you roll a 3. This would be fantastic, but would probably be a bit too strong. I'd love it, though. Those seem fair to me. It's an underutilized unit in large part because it lacks the power to kill big threats, lacks the reliability to hit in the first place, and lacks the defenses to last more than turn (at best). If I had to choose one of those, though, I'd go with 'their stealth affects overwatch.' If other armies get things that can ADD to overwatch rolls, we should have things that SUBTRACT from overwatch rolls. Then, at least, the Lictor could be used as a safe initiation unit before your Genestealers or Hormagants jump in there. -------------- I think we can pretty much skip the "increase stats, decrease points" wishlist items at this point. We all agree those are needed for top tier performance. But there have been some great ideas for unique twists to the army, guys! Keep 'em coming!
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Post by agonydeluxe on Oct 6, 2017 7:22:44 GMT
Divide tyranids units in two category:
Core units Specialists units
Make all core units (gants, rippers, gargoyles, carnifex) endless
When killed in synapse range endless units became aviable in reserve. They can enter in the battlefield in the owner's movment phase. They start from any edge , any reinforcement point or special ability (tyranocyte, birth pool, tunnel, tervigon for gants etc). if they can't end their movment in synapse range they stay in reserve.
No more native moral immunity. Each synapse have a value from 1 to 3, reduce moral casualties for each synapse in range by this value.
Instinctive behavior: if not in synapse range at the end of a turn take a moral test.
Tax delivery systems.
Given tyranids are a close quarter army and the game lasting roughtly 6 turn endless wont be a problem.
Deal with it by removing synapse or entry point.
If you tax directly endless units ( lets say 130% of their price), you will pay for it but it will be usefull only:
If the unit dies in synapse range If she can back to play If she can do something If you are not on last turn.
So, better tax delivery options or ranged weapons.
I know this is more a total rework than a predictible change, but that's what whishlist are made for.
On the doable part.
Death leaper
"She is after me" Once per game you can cancel an opponent stratagem. Spend the as much command points as the stratagem price, this stratagem is canceled and no longer avaible.
"She is everywhere" When the death leaper dies you can replace any lictor in play or in reserve by the death leaper. ( Maybe pay 1cp)
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Post by xtztxtxz on Oct 8, 2017 16:37:17 GMT
GW just posted "Which is your favourite Craftworld?" on facebook, so I guess we're after Eldar...
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Post by Iryan on Oct 8, 2017 17:04:42 GMT
My favourite Craftsworld?
Eh, they all taste the same to me.
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