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Post by gigasnail on Sept 4, 2017 20:18:27 GMT
That's my point, yes.
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Post by N.I.B. on Sept 6, 2017 6:27:34 GMT
Not really? It's a good list by a good player, but the team events aren't even the same game rhe reat of us are playing and the resulTs for a list that is specifically anti-meta and is designed for the ETC rules isnt going to get as much mileage for the rest of us, who have to have lists designed for a more generalized range of opponents/army style. I never said to ignore the ETC/ATC, just not to take what does well there as any kind of indicator of anythings aside from what did well in those environments. I think what he means is that the list did extremely well in the ITC Major as well by getting 2nd place (which is far better than any traditional Nid/GSC list so far), debunking the "this is for ETC, it only works well there" mentality. Spot on.
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Post by faux on Sept 20, 2017 23:30:21 GMT
Hello, its been a long time sense i've been on this site (started Harlequins) but GSC is something i wanted to get into and with nids.
While reading the Index i notice the Magus wasnt Unique anymore and was wondering if a Magus spam list would work along side Nids.
My 1st thought was Biovores, Mawlocs, 2 Crones a couple Lictors and a unit of Genestealers. The GSC was going to be the Supreme Command with all Magus and 1 of GSC (a 5man something small) to go along side them (more-so, so that the Magus had body guards and a small extra punch if i needed too).
Im really liking the fact that someone did do this and at a tournament setting, thanks a lot for sharing, i think i will for sure go this type of route now.
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Post by Hive Bahamut on Sept 21, 2017 1:47:21 GMT
Just remember that the reason he has the Magus is because that is the only part of GSC that adds anything productive to the list. The rest of the units are too expensive or degrade use after purchasing weapons (Metamorphs)
There are a few of us that are GSC favourites, and after their strong start in 7th, they are easily the weakest faction in 8th. Too glass hammer with too little hammer.
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Post by faux on Sept 21, 2017 2:48:41 GMT
Just remember that the reason he has the Magus is because that is the only part of GSC that adds anything productive to the list. The rest of the units are too expensive or degrade use after purchasing weapons (Metamorphs) There are a few of us that are GSC favourites, and after their strong start in 7th, they are easily the weakest faction in 8th. Too glass hammer with too little hammer. Yes i am fully aware of that, one of the reasons Magus spam looked so nice. but i still like the units and will take a few small 5mans. I mean its a game for fun after all
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Post by Jabberwocky on Sept 21, 2017 6:15:02 GMT
I think in larger games, purestrains aren't bad, since you're limited to 1 swarmlord. Cult ambush provides additional deployment options for those T1 assaults.
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Post by kazetanade on Oct 20, 2017 8:26:27 GMT
Alright, back to some theoryhammering.
As always, I'm thinking of adapting a similar concept to a closer to EW playstyle since thats what i usually play/have to deal with.
It goes without saying, but in EW the shoot and wait lists are usually much stronger than in ITC based (no progressives, so only scoring at end ; for a nonmobile list thats 3 turns of sit and shoot, for a mobile list that's 4 turns).
So while the Crone Wall works and has worked for me too (back when FMC were snapshotted), i dont see it working too well in todays EW environment.
The list basis I've got right now utilizes 2 Malanthropes, 5 Magii, 3 full Neophyte squads, 9 biovores and 3 Mawlocs in order to: take up space, create target blocks for Magii, and to reach artillery / hard to hit gun platforms. The idea is to present no good targets for the T1 blaze, forcing him to either hold and wait or to move to get at my biovores, then be able to hit a weak flank at a moment then dominate that part of the map and either force him to stay still to wipe out the flood of bodies climbing over him, or to split off and deal with the constant spore barrage.
I originally had 4 Magii, 1 Patty and 15 Purestrains for cleanup, but I'm not convinced a single unit of purestrains is viable. It only takes 1 failed CA or a failed charge to doom them, even against half an army left. So I've removed them and replaced with another Magus - I've now got approx 200 points to add things. Which could be Termagants to fill deployment, or something else i havent quite figured.
One more thing is list synergy - the list has 0 damage outside of Mortal Wounds, and everything is squishy. Mawlocs are meant to be the centre distraction unit that stops most shots on the Magii, but they collapse just as fast. 60 Neophyte bodies aren't going to hold much back, esp without fearless. While individually these things are ok, i am not sure if the list appropriately covers each others weaknesses. Its a lot harder to play than, say, 5 Catachan Leman Russes and 6 artillery with IG/Conscript block.
I'd like some feedback from people on what they think on the list synergy or effectiveness, considering the lack of progressives to rely on.
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Post by c4790m on Oct 20, 2017 10:50:11 GMT
Maybe drop the neophytes for fleshborer gants? They would work much better as a screen due to synapse and the malanthrope -1 bubble and are cheaper per body. Also, I tried running the Magi spam the other day vs Eldar and found a niche use for the Deathleaper: presenting him as a target ahead of the Magi, he was able to tank a disproportionate amount of shots thanks to his -2 to hit, should function in a similar manner to Culexus spam, just on a smaller scale.
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Post by tomcaet on Oct 20, 2017 14:12:03 GMT
Mortal Wounds are definitely the main theme, but do not disregard Maguses in melee - while laughably fragile, even moreso without the character protection in shooting, they actually bring plenty nonmortal wounds. Probably just for clutches and deep cleanup though.
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Post by kazetanade on Oct 20, 2017 16:30:04 GMT
I filled up the remainder with ratlings from AM, and Deathleaper because why not. So MW remains a theme, i got some anti-character shooting to break bubbles, Mawlocs to pull fire and attention when i need to, Magii to pull weight and 60 equipped bodies to hold ground, 30 fleshborers to wrap, 2 cloud bubbles, playing to the tune of 9 spore launchers chuting the air.
Considering Matts 6 mawloc list runs success but most peoples 3 mawloc lists seems to disintegrate, I'm not sure what to expect.
Gameplan is probably to run a conservative beta strike and bait enemies forward, using both the biovores and the ratlings move shoot move to entice enemies into tastier areas. If I'm expecting deepstrikers i should probably think about a tighter formation and how many ratlings to sacrifice. If its artillery I'm probably golden, they hate moving most of the time.
Not sure what to do against heavily mechanized transport lists like 4 chimeras and tanks. I'll probably try to cripple the tanks then wait for passengers to disembark. Or try to kill off 1 or 2 of the transports early - not like he can really shoot me all that hard.
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Post by butter on Oct 21, 2017 9:59:21 GMT
Love it. Didnt see the spore mines as the character protection provider. That's pretty brilliant. I wish the list worked here, it looks amazing to play in progrrssives. It would work decently well vs the heavy vehicle spam just because of the massive smite numbers that comes out. 2nding the spore mine protection being brilliant, I will absolutely have to try this or some variant on it. Thank you for the post, Karl
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Post by mattblowers on Oct 23, 2017 14:32:48 GMT
Considering Matts 6 mawloc list runs success but most peoples 3 mawloc lists seems to disintegrate, I'm not sure what to expect. Try proxying. The key is the threat overload with them. I used 6 in the 7th as well and so I have the models. It really hasn't worked at all when I took fewer. The biovores are essential too. I think you could experiment with dropping my 2 exocrines, but so far they are a great deterrant against models coming to your deployment zone. -3 to hit wraithfigters have me worried.
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Post by kazetanade on Oct 24, 2017 0:35:36 GMT
Considering Matts 6 mawloc list runs success but most peoples 3 mawloc lists seems to disintegrate, I'm not sure what to expect. Try proxying. The key is the threat overload with them. I used 6 in the 7th as well and so I have the models. It really hasn't worked at all when I took fewer. The biovores are essential too. I think you could experiment with dropping my 2 exocrines, but so far they are a great deterrant against models coming to your deployment zone. -3 to hit wraithfigters have me worried. Thanks for the quip, matt. Models arent generally an issue for me anymore. I've also got 2 more trygon boxes unopened in my cupboard somewhere - its more i dont know what ti expect about using 3 instead of 6 in this list. The list is very biovore heavy - 9 biovores and 5 Magii. 3 Mawlocs. I habe 60 Neophytes with heavy + special weapons instead of 3 more Mawlocs, i appreciate their ability to camp objectives and shoot. -3 wraiths are an eyesore but nothing a few smites cant handle. Smite *is* the best answer to this. I'll think about moving it closer to your concept see if i like the list jive better.
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Post by Jabberwocky on Oct 24, 2017 6:54:35 GMT
It's doubtful any army would run more than 1 wraithfighter, since it's relying on conceal. It also ties them into alaitoc, which encourages them to tailor even more around those traits and units. I'd be a lot more concerned about the Dark Reapers at that point, which are readily spammed and much more brutal. The hemlock itself shouldn't pressure you into making any changes to your list. Just get close before shooting or throw a few smites/mawlocs when you get an opportunity.
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Post by No One on Oct 24, 2017 7:47:40 GMT
It's doubtful any army would run more than 1 wraithfighter, since it's relying on conceal. Why? Like, at current, sure only run 1 as only 1 can get -2 to hit. But with Alaitoc, all get -2 to hit, which works fine at current. -3 to hit is just excessive, you don't need it for hemlocks to be plenty viable with -2 against the stuff they really want to avoid (i.e. don't get within easy 12" of stuff you don't want to be shot by). And conceal (being a pseudo venom) is probably better off buffing a bunch of other stuff (e.g. shadow spectres for massed -3...though that's probably too many hoops/too close range to really be worth bothering with. -2 on any infantry not in transports I guess, or -2 bikes). Or just take a Flyer wing of Alaitoc filled with hemlocks (or crimson hunters I guess, since they'd still get the -2, and more reliably being able to sit well outside of 12"). There's basically nothing tying you to a particular trait based on such independent units. -3 to hit wraithfigters have me worried. I've seen someone mention that hemlocks only get the 'reveal' portion. But that's just some random on the internet and I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere else, so take with a large helping of salt .
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