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Post by enochia on Aug 30, 2017 7:19:44 GMT
Hello Hive
My name is Karl and I've once again gone to ETC with a strange NID list, leaving out the usual suspects in order to get a more intresting game.
I went 4-2 on ETC, losing one fight because i screwed up, and the other because i did not screen properly and then got siezed on.
My list was as follows
Outrider
Hive Tyrant with wings, rending, stranglethorn (I've since dropped the cannon)
6x Hive Crones
2x Biovores
1x Biovore
Supreme Command
5x Magus
1x Familiar (I've dropped the familiar)
Brigade
3x Magos
3x10 Neophytes
The idea is nothing new, its what i always do, force my opponent to commit to somewhere i am not going to be, for instance, against brimwalls, i simply fly all my crones down into a corner of the map, where there are no objectives, wait for him to take the bait, then attack from a different angle with all my magoses, and of course the crones will outrange most of the DP:s.
Against drop armies, i have no problem with filling the board so that nothing can come in (wiped 2 Tau commander lists this way)
Against astra hordes, I just build walls of crones to stop the conscripts advancing.
I do not have that much of a punch, but i do not have to, with progressive scoring i always take the maelstorm i need, and i normally have a few magoses left for scoring eternal, the lynchpin of this list is really the combination of speed and the fact you can't kill my magoses, they do the heavy lifting, the Crones do some damage but are generally there to stop people shooting up my magos.
sofar i've tried this list to the ETC and to a Major ITC (44 players) here in Sweden, going 4-2 on ETC as i said and ending up 2:nd place in the Major
Just something to think about, all my lists use speed, rather then pure hitting power, and it suits me just fine.
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Post by xenomorph85 on Aug 30, 2017 7:53:56 GMT
Thank you for posting the thinking behind it. You've listed it's strengths but what about it's weaknesses?
Storm Raven spam, Ultramarines fall back and shoot with entire army, melee hordes?
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Post by mattblowers on Aug 30, 2017 11:46:58 GMT
Thanks for sharing. Quite a unique list and creativity in thinking. How do you use the maguses? Why do you state that they are not killable? If you are close enough to smite you are close enough to be charged by beserkers. Great showing though and what a unique take on your list. I like it.
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Post by xenomorph85 on Aug 30, 2017 12:23:09 GMT
Thanks for sharing. Quite a unique list and creativity in thinking. How do you use the maguses? Why do you state that they are not killable? If you are close enough to smite you are close enough to be charged by beserkers. Great showing though and what a unique take on your list. I like it. My guess here the crones are the closest in front most of the time , if wounds get through he uses the old 5th ed tactics of wound allocation abuse thanks to loyalty special rule. Another question is how are you managing the the crones minimum movement headache and that biovores probably will have to shoot without synapse which screws them over quite hard(can only target nearest visible). I find the Winged tyrant insanly hard to hide so they can't be within synapse for long. |
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Post by N.I.B. on Aug 30, 2017 12:57:41 GMT
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Post by No One on Aug 30, 2017 15:18:47 GMT
I'm just wondering how you handle shifting things off objectives - if the opponent has the mobility and model count/ob sec to control the maelstrom game? Because I'm not seeing being able to shift conscripts who Move Move Move onto midfield objectives, or (to a lesser extent) DS objective grabbers. And yeah, survivability seems to come from crones+Character - against high short range firepower (Guilliman) or melee? You can sort of kite, but if you're doing that you're giving them any objectives they want to take...
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Post by enochia on Aug 30, 2017 19:50:46 GMT
Ultramarines with loads of lascannons is a problem, especially with guilliman, but the crones are quick enough to engage early and they do kill quite a few marines with shooting+ charge, i also make good use of both horror and mass hypnosis, for instance, "that is a nice storm raven you have there, it would be a shame if it first shot two units of devestators and then got -2 to hit".
Maguses are not killable because of spore mines, my biovores walk every single round, then shooting last, after my crones have tidied up the closest targets abit, then i use command rerolls to miss my shots to place my sporemines, there is almost always things in the way of the magi, charges can easilly be avoided by placing a screen of neophytes or simpy 2 crones in a "V" formation
Against the guard lists i've played i've never had the problem of them deepstriking, most people tend to hold onto their deepstrike until they get rid of my first screen, without rapid fire plasma is not that impressive, so i simple deny them the table and gets to fight against half an army, people really dont understand how much space my army takes up when i place everything exactly 9" apart, deepstrikes are not a problem, in ETC i face 450 conscripts, i simply built a "Crone-wall" 5" base + 2.9" inbetween each crone leads to quite a long line, sure, they can charge, but flamers take their toll, then i simply redeploy 10" back, as long as your first wall is in their deployment you can play, its tough sure, but that army is stupid.
and of course all my objectives is on the 6" line.
Its a fun army that uses mobility, as soon as there is a gap somewhere i simply redeploy, my magoses mind control and mass hypnose every round, and my tyrant uses the horror and catalyst.
sofar i've won in tournaments:
3x tau drop lists
Knights
2x Astra
2x Stormraven spam
Necrons bargespam
Ynnari serpentspam (protip, shoot their shield, it really offends them)
deamons brimwall
lost against:
Knights and magnus (bad judgement on my part)
Guilliman + carpark + sisters of silence, sniper scouts
Drop astra (bad deploy on my part and got siezed)
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Post by enochia on Aug 30, 2017 20:09:04 GMT
and the killingpower, well, 30 neophytes put out 60 shots 30 hits 15 wounds 10 dead conscripts, crones 36 s5 shots, 18 hits 12 wounds + 6d6 flamers 21 hits 18 wounds, thats around 35 conscripts without the charge, not much, but can shift low value units
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Post by kazetanade on Aug 31, 2017 2:21:59 GMT
Love it. Didnt see the spore mines as the character protection provider. That's pretty brilliant.
I wish the list worked here, it looks amazing to play in progrrssives. It would work decently well vs the heavy vehicle spam just because of the massive smite numbers that comes out.
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Kuku
Genestealer
Posts: 99
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Post by Kuku on Aug 31, 2017 17:57:42 GMT
When you say that you fill the board against drop armies, you mean that on the entire board, there is no spot more than 9" away from any model for the opponent to deepstrike ?
I'm playing a mawloc/magus heavy army, so if you manage to do it I think I can do it aswell, but I've never thought of that. This is brilliant !
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Post by Jabberwocky on Aug 31, 2017 18:02:25 GMT
In theory you could have all your crones 20" apart and 10" from edges and the opponent would severely struggle to land anywhere that's 9" from all units, especially big footprints like drop pods. You'd only need like 12 big based models like crones potentially? Minus the space of terrain and existing enemy units etc.
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Post by therealdirtyrat on Sept 1, 2017 11:51:20 GMT
Why not primus over magus? Extra wound, better cult ambush, extra attack, better pistol most of the time. Weapon is debaitibly worse, but extra attack and higher ws should make up for that. Is being 3 points cheaper that much better?
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Post by No One on Sept 1, 2017 12:27:29 GMT
Why not primus over magus? Extra wound, better cult ambush, extra attack, better pistol most of the time. Weapon is debaitibly worse, but extra attack and higher ws should make up for that. Is being 3 points cheaper that much better? Smite+other psychic - you never take magus for combat, not sure why you mention that? If they're in combat, something's gone wrong. Primus is pretty bad in combat by himself - he's a great buffer who'll do some damage in a pinch, but squishy and not huge output. When basically the entire point of the list is to sit on objectives and score maelstrom (i.e. where the enemy isn't, and thus no combat)? |
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Post by therealdirtyrat on Sept 1, 2017 15:59:06 GMT
I'm an idiot, thought primus was a pyker
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Post by jesper77 on Sept 1, 2017 19:37:40 GMT
Ive had the pleasure of meeting Karl face to face and have a chat at the latest ITC tournament in Västerås were he ended up 2nd place. Karl is one hell of a player and is very good at utalizing the perks of the units. What makes this list so good is that people have hard time understanding what it does realy. To be honest the first time I saw the list I didnt think much if it. It was the opposite of what you normaly bring in a high tier list. The lists Karl faced whas hard lists and it was fun seeing him take the second place in style.
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