Some observations after tournament play

[mattblowers]

OK, I've had some real world experience with tournament play so I'll lay out the issues I'm facing.

1. We can't outrange anyone serious. Our great shooting is considerably more expensive that most other armies. 3 hive guard, while good, can be outranged by a good gunline. Exocrines are even more expensive. You aren't going to outshoot another dedicated gunline.

2. While we can horde it up, our hordes aren't as resilient as other hordes. Ork hordes will tear us apart, we die 2x as fast conscripts, and aren't nearly as reilient as brimstones or plaguebearers.

3. Transports are an issue. Bezerkers can really do a number since they can hide inside transports until they are ready to work. Our overall low strength means we will struggle to pop transports reliably which creates a real issue in our opponents next turn.

4. Serious dedicated shooting can wipe out our big nasties reliably. You can bubble wrap them to screen out melta, but then you have an expensive blob that can't move.

In short, we don't do anything remarkably well or unique. We also aren't terrible at anything. We are OK at everything which makes list focus really hard.

My thoughts at this point:

A well rounded tyranid list won't really hold up to any top lists at the moment. We are going to have to find something that we are great at and focus on that. Right now I'm thinking of Alpha Striking as hard as we can, I'll put my list up on the army list thread. It's going to take some play testing to get right, but I think it could work.

[homnomnomigaunt]

Most of my lists so far have revolved around force feeding my opponent a face-full of genestealers or a Dimachaeron on turn one and backing it up with as many other scary "I will eat you next turn unless you deal with me" units as possible. Most games I've played though have been smaller (1000-1500pts), which allows Malanthrope + The horror to effectively cripple their biggest ranged threat (which really helps reduce their ability to deal with the threats on the table). In larger games this tactic is likely to be less effective as armies are less likely to rely so heavily on one major threat and counter-punching armies like deep-striking Scions armed with plasma guns can really put a spanner in the works.

[valdyr]

My biggest issue so far has been vs other CC armies. Interrupt is powerful. Yes it costs 2CP but it means you can't rely on striking first because most of our stuff will get squished vs heavy hitters.... 

It puts a melee army with some shooting in a weird place when you have to be careful not to charge too many enemy units.

[gigasnail]

They can only interrupt once per phase, only after you'be charged, and only after your at least one of your charging units has already made its attacks. It's powerful but it's not like we thought it was going to be during the initial rules leaks/release cycle.

[killercroc]

This is something I've noticed as well, however not from tournament play but the general feel of 8th and looking at out index and others by comparison. I believe Tyranids are a decent army and can be well rounded and pushed one direction or another for a more fluff or model focused list, but when it comes down to serious play it's hit hard and hit fast. I don't see anything Tyranids can do that anyone else cannot do better short of that alpha strike, Trygons with Genestealers & Devilgaunts, Swarmy in a pod, cult allies with ambushing Purestrains and Magus etc. Short of focusing hard on these things like you said mattblowers we're going to have a hard time keeping up in anything short of a friendly weekend battle.

[gigasnail]

Aug 29, 2017 14:47:46 GMT mattblowers said:

OK, I've had some real world experience with tournament play so I'll lay out the issues I'm facing.

1. We can't outrange anyone serious. Our great shooting is considerably more expensive that most other armies. 3 hive guard, while good, can be outranged by a good gunline. Exocrines are even more expensive. You aren't going to outshoot another dedicated gunline.

2. While we can horde it up, our hordes aren't as resilient as other hordes. Ork hordes will tear us apart, we die 2x as fast conscripts, and aren't nearly as reilient as brimstones or plaguebearers.

3. Transports are an issue. Bezerkers can really do a number since they can hide inside transports until they are ready to work. Our overall low strength means we will struggle to pop transports reliably which creates a real issue in our opponents next turn.

4. Serious dedicated shooting can wipe out our big nasties reliably. You can bubble wrap them to screen out melta, but then you have an expensive blob that can't move.

In short, we don't do anything remarkably well or unique. We also aren't terrible at anything. We are OK at everything which makes list focus really hard.

My thoughts at this point:

A well rounded tyranid list won't really hold up to any top lists at the moment. We are going to have to find something that we are great at and focus on that. Right now I'm thinking of Alpha Striking as hard as we can, I'll put my list up on the army list thread. It's going to take some play testing to get right, but I think it could work.

All good points. I would focus on the known goods, stealers (both GSC and hive fleet), BL, HG. Decide on a delivery system for the HF stealers. Explore the GSC/nid/AM FOC synergy if you want to go that way.

Continue to report from the front, I know I appreciate it. I will never see a tournament, not in the next 3 years at least due to work so my contribution is going to continue to be limited to kicking my local baby seals.

[mule]

Aug 29, 2017 22:10:53 GMT valdyr said:

My biggest issue so far has been vs other CC armies. Interrupt is powerful. Yes it costs 2CP but it means you can't rely on striking first because most of our stuff will get squished vs heavy hitters.... 

It puts a melee army with some shooting in a weird place when you have to be careful not to charge too many enemy units.

Use biovores to stop other cc armies from moving up the board. Control where you fight and who you fight with what. They cant deal with the spore mines until after their shooting phase and by then theyve lost out on their movement and advance.

Meanwhile your genestealers can get a better charge and consolidate and more bodies into the combat.

Biovores are good because of this reason.

[purestrain]

Aug 30, 2017 17:42:15 GMT mule said:

Aug 29, 2017 22:10:53 GMT valdyr said:

My biggest issue so far has been vs other CC armies. Interrupt is powerful. Yes it costs 2CP but it means you can't rely on striking first because most of our stuff will get squished vs heavy hitters.... 

It puts a melee army with some shooting in a weird place when you have to be careful not to charge too many enemy units.

Use biovores to stop other cc armies from moving up the board. Control where you fight and who you fight with what. They cant deal with the spore mines until after their shooting phase and by then theyve lost out on their movement and advance.

Meanwhile your genestealers can get a better charge and consolidate and more bodies into the combat.

Biovores are good because of this reason.

They're also good because they cost nothing and are mortal wound generators

[mule]

Aug 30, 2017 18:06:08 GMT purestrain said:

Aug 30, 2017 17:42:15 GMT mule said:

Use biovores to stop other cc armies from moving up the board. Control where you fight and who you fight with what. They cant deal with the spore mines until after their shooting phase and by then theyve lost out on their movement and advance.

Meanwhile your genestealers can get a better charge and consolidate and more bodies into the combat.

Biovores are good because of this reason.

They're also good because they cost nothing and are mortal wound generators

Unfortunately youll get more wounds with hiveguard against pretty much everything.

[Aux]

Waiting for the new codex right now - but from what I've played and your 4 points:

1. The duo Exocrine list right now feels great.... until you play against an extremely solid gunline at the 1750-1850 area. I actually played against a 30k army, and a few more balanced lists and I didn't feel outmatched. Against Tau and Eldar? Whewwwww

2. I recently had a 200+ boys ork vs 200 Gaunt nid match up. Once the Malanthrope went down and combat dragged on more then the first turn... my army evaporated. I've been looking into running 2x9 Rippers right now to troll my FLGS.

3. Transports are always an issue. Deathspitter fexs have been fun, as have Hive Guard - but that's a good chunk of points to allocate to pop 30-50pt transports.

4. I agree here. Tyrant Guard, 2+ Malanthropes, B.Hierodule, Exocrines seem to be the units surviving until turn 4+. Three Screamerfex is a meme. Trygon and Mawlowcs are a shock 1-2 turn annoyance. I've been trying to play with really awkward and large terrain. Empty board with some trees? oh nooo

[inferno]

Aug 30, 2017 19:48:20 GMT mule said:

Aug 30, 2017 18:06:08 GMT purestrain said:

They're also good because they cost nothing and are mortal wound generators

Unfortunately youll get more wounds with hiveguard against pretty much everything.

Totally lacks the board control Biovores offer, which is the key component to the strategy laid out. Wounds are a bonus.

[Hive Tyrant Qiln]

Aug 31, 2017 18:11:54 GMT Aux said:

 pop 30-50pt transports.

Either your friends are cheating or your exaggerating because I check and there is no transport this cheap.

[gigasnail]

rhinos are 70ish. /shrug

[Hive Tyrant Qiln]

Yeah, but that's still double the price point of what he said.

[kazetanade]

I thought they're 100 or so? Or was that the razorback?