Hive Guard or Biovores and why.

[Rye]

Can we have a discussion about our successes and failures with Hive guard vs biovores. I can't decided which to spend my money on. I'm leaning toward 6 biovores over 6 hive guard. What are you running and what are the pros and cons in comparison?

[almostmercury]

Hive Guard are better (read: more efficient).

They have a higher BS, weapon options, more shots, and better damage. That's quite a bargain for 12 points (less with the shock cannon).

Biovores deal mortal wounds, sure. But each biovore misses half the time, and even on a hit can still miss. The upside? No save.

I like the 48" range and they could compliment my list, but I think I would prefer mawlocs for mortal wounds.

[kazetanade]

Biovores are a choice for cheap mortal wounds + spore generation. I would say they are really good fillers and can be slot into a strategy if you have extra points, or can form an inexpensive wing of a strategy.

Hive Guard are safe-ish shooters. They're all around good performers and if you plan to have shooting you should have them.

I'd prioritize HG over Biovores.

Mawlocs are awesome though.

[cypheon]

Jul 22, 2017 6:45:19 GMT Rye said:

Can we have a discussion about our successes and failures with Hive guard vs biovores. I can't decided which to spend my money on. I'm leaning toward 6 biovores over 6 hive guard. What are you running and what are the pros and cons in comparison?

Unless you are converting hive guard into biovores, the financial cost is astronomically in the guards favor.

$60'ish for three plastic guard vs $45 for 1 resin biovore is a no brainer on where your dollars should be. Why pay $135 for 3 models when you can pay half that?

But if you convert the guard kit, its the same price either way, in which case, biovores. Longer range, mortal wounds on hit, mortal wounds a turn later on miss. Hive guard are nice and all, but if you insist on one or the other, they just dont measure up compared to the effectiveness of mortal wounds.

[gigasnail]

I'd have to completely disagree there. Aside from the financials, those are spot on.

[cypheon]

Jul 22, 2017 16:25:22 GMT gigasnail said:

I'd have to completely disagree there. Aside from the financials, those are spot on.

Ideally, 1 brood of each would be the best option, but OP asked where his money should go, not his points. His money will get 6 hiveguard before he gets 3 biovores. Thus the "convert" suggestion.

Personally, i would field one brood of each, as the two units serve similar, yet not identical, purposes.

[gigasnail]

I'd be a lot more inclined to put 2 brood of HG into any list, build the rest of the list, and then fill holes with biovores, rather than trying to include biovores in the first pass.

And yeah if you're buying stock biovores from Gw, you're probably doing it wrong. That's an easy conversion from the HG kit.

[almostmercury]

Biovores do barely 1 mortal wound per turn. It's very easy to kill a spore mine when every gun (not even model) has split fire.

You pay a premium for mortal wounds, especially on small models. At least with a knight you get everything else, which is already worth the points.

[N.I.B.]

Jul 22, 2017 22:42:55 GMT almostmercury said:

Biovores do barely 1 mortal wound per turn. It's very easy to kill a spore mine when every gun (not even model) has split fire.

It is. But what usually happens in my games is; those spore mines are closing in on expensive units with few shots units like Longfangs and Tank Bustas or las cannons. They rarely want to throw away those precious few shots on mines. And such units are usually placed were your opponent thinks they are safe (up in ruins in a corner) so there isn't always body guards that can get rid of the mines. One of my favourite tactics is to move the mines directly underneath the unit in the upper floor, so when I declare the charge they can't shoot Overwatch.

[kazetanade]

Jul 23, 2017 22:46:05 GMT N.I.B. said:

Jul 22, 2017 22:42:55 GMT almostmercury said:

Biovores do barely 1 mortal wound per turn. It's very easy to kill a spore mine when every gun (not even model) has split fire.

It is. But what usually happens in my games is; those spore mines are closing in on expensive units with few shots units like Longfangs and Tank Bustas or las cannons. They rarely want to throw away those precious few shots on mines. And such units are usually placed were your opponent thinks they are safe (up in ruins in a corner) so there isn't always body guards that can get rid of the mines. One of my favourite tactics is to move the mines directly underneath the unit in the upper floor, so when I declare the charge they can't shoot Overwatch.

This is genius.

[gigasnail]

Ablative bolter guys just delete the spores. I see them (and use them myself like this) spaced in and arouND the floors of ruins, trailing back to buff zones and objectives.

[almostmercury]

Yeah. "I didn't know biovores could do that" is a one time only thing. Seriously, marines can fire their bolters forward and their bolt pistols 12" backward. That's 36" and too much work for one or two mortal wounds.

[meavar]

Depends on what you are shooting.
Against normal targets (vehicles) the hyve guard are slightly better.
Against insane targets (t8+ with invurnerable saves)the biovores do slightly better. Or against targets which cannot kill the spore mines.
But usually the hyve guard are slightly better. Although they cannot create no go areas like the biovores can. Sounds silly but even a single sporemine can stop a vehicle since he cannot move within 1"of it in the movement phase, thus they are really nice if you have quite some terrain.

[No One]

meavar said:

Sounds silly but even a single sporemine can stop a vehicle since he cannot move within 1"of it in the movement phase, thus they are really nice if you have quite some terrain.

Fun fact - if they don't mind eating a mortal wound (not really applicable for vehicles, but if they're feeling risky/are infantry blobs), you can actually give them movement. i.e. They charge around it (getting effectively base+1" for the slowest - terrain makes this dicier though - and charge distance for other models in the unit), it explodes, they activate for another 6".

[saltey]

I am not 100% sure of this but would Hive guard ignore effects such as the shroudpsalm canticle in admech which gives a bonus like they had cover.

If yes then I think they have a huge bonus against armies that include these effects.