Malaceptor quirks

[able]

I've been looking into picking up a malaceptor, as synapse for a carnifex brood (but more because I love the model). It is expensive, but has some quirks that are interesting, and I missed when I first looked at it.

Firstly, it is much harder for enemy psykers to shut down than almost anything else. A standard psyker needs to get 3 higher than your roll on deny the witch tests to stop it's powers, between it's bonus and shadow. Throw a command point reroll on a bad dice and even psykers with big bonuses will struggle. If they have some very snazzy deny the witch buffs, it can use it's tendrils instead, which cannot be denied. It only has one power, but if you really want that horror to stick, this is your guy. It is also twice as likely to get that D6 damage smite, and half as likely to fail completely. A roll of 6 on one of your test dice gives you a 50% chance of rolling a D6 smite with the other die, so a CP reroll might be worth it here (with a 1/6 for perils, but risk it for a biscuit). A more general point is that I had missed how useful a +1 is for psykers (and conversely how annoying shadow will be).
Secondly, it can hit characters. Not hard, but it can hit them fairly reliably. Tendrils does not even need to hit the closest targets first, so a badly hurt unlucky malaceptor can still aim it's one tendril at the chaplain. Bodyguard units can still take the hits, but then you get to hit them twice, making it as almost as effective as a smite anyway.
T7 makes it good for walking with the fexes, because it is not a far better target for any weapons. It is not even substantially more points per wound than fexes, unlike a tyrant. A tyrant is significantly more dangerous, but will be a priority target.
In combat it is S7 D6, so light armour should be running from it.
The only annoying thing about it is that it is not an HQ choice.

Anyone got any experience with them, or other thoughts? I quite like the look of them in a non forgeworld fex list (OOE as HQ in a spearhead), because it can be really upsetting when your fexes fire all their weapons or charge at a single spore mine.

[nurglitch]

They're considerably better than their 7th edition incarnation, including those Massive Scything Talons, the ability to hand out mortal wounds like hallowe'en candy (if you're close enough), and the other stuff like Synapse, Shadow, etc.

I think if you're just going for something to keep the Carnifexes moving forward, then a Tyranid Prime should do the trick for cheaper. It's a small character, so hiding behind the Carnifexes should keep it safe and pushing them forward to the right targets.

It seems to me that the Maleceptor is something you'd want to plow into enemy lines where the enemy is going MSU.

[able]

A prime would be cheaper, but also almost entirely ineffective. Costs more than another fex, and doesn't do much beside synapse (100pts+ for 1 deathspitter and 4 1 damage attacks?). I might consider a broodlord for the role, because once the fexes get into combat he can do his thing, and until then he can be a psyker, but the prime is only really effective as a warrior buff I think, and if there are warriors providing synapse I don't need a prime there.

[almostmercury]

I'd recommend the Malanthrope instead. It's strictly better, even if it's about the same cost. The -1 to hit for the fexes is much better than +1 to psychic casts, it's an HQ, and a character (better than invuln). I'm going to assume you don't have/can't play one.

You're a bit optimistic with Shadow in the Warp because of range. Enemy psykers can deny from 24" away and the range of shadow is only 8". And, unless it was in the FAQ, a Psychic Test (which Shadow in the Warp affects) isn't a Deny the Witch test (not called a psychic test in the BRB).

I really like the +1 to Psychic Tests, but it's just so damned expensive for a consistent power.

[kazetanade]

If we're going non FW, malanthropes aren't available.

Good point on Primes though. At least the BL is a force to be reckoned with on its own. Still ex though.

Maybe the Maleceptor is better than we think?

[able]

Jul 13, 2017 6:27:57 GMT almostmercury said:

I'd recommend the Malanthrope instead. It's strictly better, even if it's about the same cost. The -1 to hit for the fexes is much better than +1 to psychic casts, it's an HQ, and a character (better than invuln). I'm going to assume you don't have/can't play one.

You're a bit optimistic with Shadow in the Warp because of range. Enemy psykers can deny from 24" away and the range of shadow is only 8". And, unless it was in the FAQ, a Psychic Test (which Shadow in the Warp affects) isn't a Deny the Witch test (not called a psychic test in the BRB).

I really like the +1 to Psychic Tests, but it's just so damned expensive for a consistent power.

Right you are sir, thank you for preventing me looking like a fool in future. Don't know why I though deny the witch used a psychic test.

The malanthrope would be more reliable synapse, and would make the fexes more tanky, but the malaceptor can also do the job of one of the fexes, so instead of 3 fexes led by a malanthrope, I would maybe go with 2 fexes led by a malaceptor, which works out far cheaper. I quite like warriors in a trygon because I can afford to lose some synapse if they can drop in, so the malaceptor getting killed off is not a huge problem.

I'm not a huge fan of the malanthrope, except maybe with exocrine. In melee it is ok, but loses the protection of the character keyword. It will die to an average 40 st3 no ap hits, meaning it wouldn't last a turn against a hormagaunt brood! If the fexes don't stay close, one could die leaving the malanthrope open, and 2 squads of guardsmen can kill it in a turn of fire. -1 to hit is hilarious against conscripts, but unless it is protecting something really high value like 2 exocrine, I would rather take more of the stuff it is guarding. Tank with wounds instead.

[gigasnail]

...dont let it get charged with hormagants then? Of course it's going to get blendered if you let a whole unit of 30 dudes beat it's face in.

[almostmercury]

Jul 13, 2017 11:43:26 GMT able said:

Jul 13, 2017 6:27:57 GMT almostmercury said:

I'd recommend the Malanthrope instead. It's strictly better, even if it's about the same cost. The -1 to hit for the fexes is much better than +1 to psychic casts, it's an HQ, and a character (better than invuln). I'm going to assume you don't have/can't play one.

You're a bit optimistic with Shadow in the Warp because of range. Enemy psykers can deny from 24" away and the range of shadow is only 8". And, unless it was in the FAQ, a Psychic Test (which Shadow in the Warp affects) isn't a Deny the Witch test (not called a psychic test in the BRB).

I really like the +1 to Psychic Tests, but it's just so damned expensive for a consistent power.

Right you are sir, thank you for preventing me looking like a fool in future. Don't know why I though deny the witch used a psychic test.

The malanthrope would be more reliable synapse, and would make the fexes more tanky, but the malaceptor can also do the job of one of the fexes, so instead of 3 fexes led by a malanthrope, I would maybe go with 2 fexes led by a malaceptor, which works out far cheaper. I quite like warriors in a trygon because I can afford to lose some synapse if they can drop in, so the malaceptor getting killed off is not a huge problem.

I'm not a huge fan of the malanthrope, except maybe with exocrine. In melee it is ok, but loses the protection of the character keyword. It will die to an average 40 st3 no ap hits, meaning it wouldn't last a turn against a hormagaunt brood! If the fexes don't stay close, one could die leaving the malanthrope open, and 2 squads of guardsmen can kill it in a turn of fire. -1 to hit is hilarious against conscripts, but unless it is protecting something really high value like 2 exocrine, I would rather take more of the stuff it is guarding. Tank with wounds instead.

Interesting point about the role of a Carnifex.

Currently, 3 fexes and a Malanthrope are only about 20 points more expensive, but I guess I expect that to change.

Maybe the Maleceptor is better than it looks? I admit to looking over the entry more than once and everyone's experience with the Mawloc tells me I should consider them. I guess I've just found synapse to be less necessary for myself because a) I run a lot of GSC, and b) it's so much better than before (in and out of synapse)

[able]

Jul 13, 2017 12:34:59 GMT gigasnail said:

...dont let it get charged with hormagants then? Of course it's going to get blendered if you let a whole unit of 30 dudes beat it's face in.

I chose gaunts because I assumed people here would be aware how long it takes them to kill anything remotely solid, which is why it is surprising that even they would be able to chew through a melee monster that expensive without slowing down.

[gigasnail]

Malanthrope is hardly a melee "monster" man.

[able]

Sorry, wasn't clear. I didn't mean it was powerful at melee, just that melee range is it's only offensive capability at all. It's vulnerability to even non melee specialists really hinders it being used for offence at all, was my point. Do I want to spend 10PP on a model that I have no intention of using offensively? The buff it offers had better be something special, and -1 to hit at 3" doesn't do it for me.

[gigasnail]

i dunno, i don't use power points. mal's not an offensive unit.

[kazetanade]

I'd like to point out 30 hormagaunts are gking to chew through anything thats low T with a single model.Malanrhropes not exactly tanky. Neither are commissars, commanders, priests, kryptechs or SM captains.

[inferno]

If I took a Malaceptor, it would be with a Tyrannocyte and utilized as a pressure unit. I really want to like them and will likely get one at some point just because I think they are cool, but I don't think they are much above meh in a TAC list.

[Iryan]

Jul 13, 2017 22:58:13 GMT able said:

Do I want to spend 10PP on a model that I have no intention of using offensively?

Ah, so this is the problem. See, Forgeworld hecked up. For pretty much all units, to determine the power level, GW takes the point cost of a barebones one, the point cost of a fully kitted out one, take the average, and divide by 20. It is not a perfect system, but it is decent.

Now, people mentioned how the Malanthrope is currently way undercosted. This is true, but only for point values. For some reason, the Malanthrope's power level value is twice of what it should be based on it's point value. So while the point value is undercosted, in the power level system it is way overcosted instead.

Whoops~