Post FAQ Competitive GSC and Nids

[almostmercury]

Newest revision in light of Purestrains going up to 15 points. I think 13 is the most reasonable cost, but whatever. I'd like to see Acolytes drop quite a bit.

Nids and GSC Mk IV - 1998 pts

Nid Spearhead

180 Malanthrope x2
48 Termagants w/FB x12
40 Termagants w/FB x10
40 Termagants w/FB x10
144 Hive Guard x3 w/IC
144 Hive Guard x3 w/IC
228 Exocrine
228 Exocrine


GSC Vanguard

150 Patriarch
76 Primus
240 Purestrains x16 w/Talons
240 Purestrains x16 w/Talons
240 Purestrains x16 w/Talons


Revisions:

1. Purestrains went up quite a bit, so I had to cut some along with the extra Primus and Magus. Magus was gravy, Primus was handy, the missing stealers hurt the most.

2. I've been going back and forth around all Exocrines or all Hive Guard and I just find the mix to work well.


The list still feels very flexible and that it can still handle many threats. I need to try it against harder lists, but with the changes to fliers, I think I now have the diversity to handle concentrated threats. I guess knights are still rough, but I feel pretty confident against anything else. I've considered dropping a Malanthrope and centralizing my firebase, but I find that splitting it is working pretty well.

[kazetanade]

It feels like it will clean house even against the Boise list setups. I think you're golden here.

[almostmercury]

I just realized that I can trade 2 CP for no troops...

[blackrainbow]

How are you doing 40 gants/brood? They cap at 30.

[No One]

Pts is on the left.

As to list...the stonecrushers look very out of place - everything's either very aggressive melee (stealers, harpy) that'll engage in their DZ, or shooting elements. While the stonecrushers are slow (come on, 1" more than last ed - they're not suddenly zooming up the field guys). Unless they come to you (which...they might?), you're likely forcing them back in their DZ with the stealers. What's happened to me most games so far - engaged and killed the forward elements, then their backline has moved back as well - stonecrushers now have to cross the midfield and their entire DZ.

I'd swap one of the Primus' to a Magus - you can't actually tag along patriarch and Primus, they give the same buff to hit, and you can just use a CP for the last unit reroll. And then you don't need to decide between Hypnosis and Might (both of which are better than +1 to hit, if you somehow don't have it from patty).

[almostmercury]

The stonecrushers are intended for vehicle redundancy. They may not have direct synergy, but I feel that they fill a gap. I have an unbuilt harpy that I can use in the future which would probably fit better... in the meantime... I could put a Russ?

That is a great point about the magus, since I'm probably using a cp on the patriarch anyway.

[almostmercury]

Jul 4, 2017 4:25:33 GMT blackrainbow said:

How are you doing 40 gants/brood? They cap at 30.

They're units of 10 for 40 points.

[N.I.B.]

Can you 'add' as many characters you want to the same ambushing infantry unit?

[No One]

N.I.B. said:

Can you 'add' as many characters you want to the same ambushing infantry unit?

No. For each GSC Character that CAs, you can have them come in with one GSC Infantry unit.

[kazetanade]

Jul 4, 2017 5:19:24 GMT almostmercury said:

The stonecrushers are intended for vehicle redundancy. They may not have direct synergy, but I feel that they fill a gap. I have an unbuilt harpy that I can use in the future which would probably fit better... in the meantime... I could put a Russ?

That is a great point about the magus, since I'm probably using a cp on the patriarch anyway.

Harpy is questionable. I would stick with the stonecrushers because they're cheap and they can just run up the board. I would prefer aberrants but too expensive in comparison. I dont feel The harpy or dual harpies at all in this role.

[No One]

kazetanade said:

Harpy is questionable. I would stick with the stonecrushers because they're cheap and they can just run up the board. I would prefer aberrants but too expensive in comparison. I dont feel The harpy or dual harpies at all in this role.

Cheap doesn't help much if they're doing nothing - if you just want CA slots, take mucos (or biovores). And he's comfortably got enough (even dropping the stonecrushers entirely).

Most games, they're not engaging until T3. Last (current...) game, my deployed neos didn't get in range of anything until T3. Now, they were in range without having moved, and relatively comfortably. Add on 7" vs 6" and maybe another inch or so more on deployment, and probably a feasible charge - but likely still been a long charge to make. Having 200 pts sitting around doing nothing until T3 hurts (2 neos, a biovore, a bunch of spore mines and a Magus - all doing nothing but being CA slot chaff until T3. Partly my stuff up though . ) You're creating a force imbalance not in your favour - potentially 1800 pts into 2000 (well, there's also the warriors, terms and mals, but they're at least doing stuff, even if it's purely defensive. 2 mals and a warrior brood is probably excessive though). Unless your 1800 pts can deal with their entire army, you're then left hoping that the stonecrushers can mop up. Which...they're 7" movers. They make terrible mop up. They provide a bit of area denial for vehicles - but shock HG (just HG in general) do that, have a 30" inch threat range, and can contribute at range to make the forces more equal.

Or a harpy (flyrant half works at this - my current list concept ) backs up the rapid engagement by the cult, and can engage on any stragglers that escape. Counters both wrap (with 30" move and Fly, just jump it and charge the backline - ideally, anyway), and can catch things like flying vehicles that escape. I think Cult can deal with normal vehicles to an extent, purely by continuing to grab them into combat. Infantry just get mulched. But flying vehicles...so far, proving to be obnoxious. Difficult to catch, vehicles are hard to kill in one round, and suffer no loss of output.

[almostmercury]

Great considerations.

I went with termagants as the cheapest troop I could get but I can lose 2 cp to drop them entirely.

That gets me another 149 points to go with the 210 of the stone crushers.

I mean a harpy seems way better than gaunts and warriors. But I still don't know what to replace the stone crushers with. I have 1 EL, HS, and FA, so I would need two of any one type to ditch the troops.

I feel like that leaves me with very little synapse though.

I mean, the other possibility is to try and force them out of their DZ with the stealers.

[No One]

almostmercury said:

I mean, the other possibility is to try and force them out of their DZ with the stealers.

You (basically) can't get behind them. You're going to find forcing them out, rather than forcing them and holding them in very difficult.

I went with termagants as the cheapest troop I could get but I can lose 2 cp to drop them entirely.
...
I mean a harpy seems way better than gaunts and warriors. But I still don't know what to replace the stone crushers with. I have 1 EL, HS, and FA, so I would need two of any one type to ditch the troops.

A unit of gargs? The terms can actually serve a role as screen/wrap - but that's served better by gargs, who also fill the last remaining FA slot . I think another exocrine might be worth considering - I'd be concerned about 1 getting focused down, but with 2+HG you've got a decent firebase to attack anything in their back lines/soften things up for the stealers etc. Just...having not yet played shooting (36") shooting elements with the cult, I'm concerned about range on that. Not sure how that'd pan out yet. My 24" guns weren't in range of even a forward element until T3. Shooting stuff in the backline...maybe another unit of HG instead, so then they don't lose so much output if they move and fire??

[almostmercury]

I can proxy a tyrannofex for an exocrine, but I feel inclined toward the HG for points. Two malanthropes is pretty low synapse. But I guess if I'm not doing a lot of advancing... I don't know. I like the output but it feels rigid.

[blackrainbow]

Jul 4, 2017 5:20:49 GMT almostmercury said:

Jul 4, 2017 4:25:33 GMT blackrainbow said:

How are you doing 40 gants/brood? They cap at 30.

They're units of 10 for 40 points.

Holy cow my derp, jeez me. Apologies, go on.