Nidzilla viable? any suggestions?

[srsthsr]

Hi guys, I'm kind of new to the whole game in general but I think that NIDZILLAS are awesome! I was wondering if anyone has tried or are planning to try this kind of army?
Any suggestions on list building and which models to get? I currently only have a Hive Tyrant/Swarmlord and any suggestions would really be appreciated!

Maleceptors?
Exocrine or Tyrannofex?
Toxicrene or Haruspex?

etc etc

Thank you!

[fuerchtegott]

Maleceptors, Tyrannofex, Toxicrene and Haruspex do not look good. Maybe the Tyrannofex. Exocrine looks good, Carnifex Spam with OldOneEye, Swarmlord, Warriors as Troop base to spam your multiple wounds.

[themoocher]

Exocrine is a great shooter now, very durable at T8 and solid 12 shots at str 7 ap-2 2D. I havn't got a chance to test the Haruspex but he also seems very good. T8 isn't something to joke about. It is a very important number. Nidzilla is definitely a possibility.

For what you have suggested. I wouldnt run the maleceptors, they are expensive for what they do. Definitely Exocrine over the Tyrannofex. Haruspex over the Toxicrene.

Exocrine vs Tyrannofex. Both T8 12 vs 14 wounds both 3+ save. largest difference is the BS. If the Exocrine doesnt move it is 36" range 12 shots at 36" firing at BS 3+. Tyrannofex is only 4 shots doing 2 damage a piece at 48" BS4+. i see the tyrannofex got a pretty decent nerf. while it can move and shoot without penalties it is still weaker over.

Haruspex vs Toxicrene. this one to me is pretty easy. Haruspex is T8 13 wounds vs T7 12 wounds. Toxicrene does have 2 more attacks at the same str. they both put out a ridiculous amount of hits in melee vs small targets(relative as it is str 7) but Haruspex will get more if he is multicharging. he also can strike with claws at Str 14 wounding vehicles on a 2/3 instead of a 3/4 depending on toughness. overall I like the Haurspex as it can also gain back wounds when it fights and eats things.

[fuerchtegott]

Haruspex is 90 more point than the Toxicrene. Almost Swarmlord level. It is tough, but the big guns still wound it on 3+ (Lascannons).

Lets looks at its Melee potential: Average 8 attacks, 4 hits, 3 wounds against Space Marines. They get a 4+ save. One, maybe two bonus attacks hitting again on 4+. Congratulations, your near-Swarmlord expensive melee monster just killed 3 Space Marines (The dice are in your favor in this scenario.) .

Haruspex vs. 2,75 Carnifices should be the nidzilla question.

[srsthsr]

Jun 11, 2017 19:53:44 GMT fuerchtegott said:

Maleceptors, Tyrannofex, Toxicrene and Haruspex do not look good. Maybe the Tyrannofex. Exocrine looks good, Carnifex Spam with OldOneEye, Swarmlord, Warriors as Troop base to spam your multiple wounds.

Jun 11, 2017 20:18:50 GMT themoocher said:

Exocrine is a great shooter now, very durable at T8 and solid 12 shots at str 7 ap-2 2D. I havn't got a chance to test the Haruspex but he also seems very good. T8 isn't something to joke about. It is a very important number. Nidzilla is definitely a possibility.

For what you have suggested. I wouldnt run the maleceptors, they are expensive for what they do. Definitely Exocrine over the Tyrannofex. Haruspex over the Toxicrene.

Exocrine vs Tyrannofex. Both T8 12 vs 14 wounds both 3+ save. largest difference is the BS. If the Exocrine doesnt move it is 36" range 12 shots at 36" firing at BS 3+. Tyrannofex is only 4 shots doing 2 damage a piece at 48" BS4+. i see the tyrannofex got a pretty decent nerf. while it can move and shoot without penalties it is still weaker over.

Haruspex vs Toxicrene. this one to me is pretty easy. Haruspex is T8 13 wounds vs T7 12 wounds. Toxicrene does have 2 more attacks at the same str. they both put out a ridiculous amount of hits in melee vs small targets(relative as it is str 7) but Haruspex will get more if he is multicharging. he also can strike with claws at Str 14 wounding vehicles on a 2/3 instead of a 3/4 depending on toughness. overall I like the Haurspex as it can also gain back wounds when it fights and eats things.

Jun 11, 2017 20:52:26 GMT fuerchtegott said:

Haruspex is 90 more point than the Toxicrene. Almost Swarmlord level. It is tough, but the big guns still wound it on 3+ (Lascannons).

Lets looks at its Melee potential: Average 8 attacks, 4 hits, 3 wounds against Space Marines. They get a 4+ save. One, maybe two bonus attacks hitting again on 4+. Congratulations, your near-Swarmlord expensive melee monster just killed 3 Space Marines (The dice are in your favor in this scenario.) .

Haruspex vs. 2,75 Carnifices should be the nidzilla question.

First of all thank you guys so much for the information. At first I was thinking about a strategy where I use sporocysts and 2 tyrannofex to control the centre of the board whilst having a swarmlord to buff models to charge from the centre. But from what you guys are saying it doesnt seem like a very viable strategy! Its a shame that the carnifexes and exocrines are out of stock in GW store atm and it seems my best bet at running a nidzilla are those two. Would you guys be able to suggest which other models I should be looking for? would 5 warriors and a prime be good? Zoanthropes for the synapse and psychic abilities? Mawloc?

Thank you all once again

[themoocher]

Jun 11, 2017 20:52:26 GMT fuerchtegott said:

Haruspex is 90 more point than the Toxicrene. Almost Swarmlord level. It is tough, but the big guns still wound it on 3+ (Lascannons).

Lets looks at its Melee potential: Average 8 attacks, 4 hits, 3 wounds against Space Marines. They get a 4+ save. One, maybe two bonus attacks hitting again on 4+. Congratulations, your near-Swarmlord expensive melee monster just killed 3 Space Marines (The dice are in your favor in this scenario.) .

Haruspex vs. 2,75 Carnifices should be the nidzilla question.

Small thing but he then attacks with the shovel claws for each model removed so he gets 3 more attacks hitting 2 of them wounding both and killing two more guys. This is also with fewer crack backs because Marines wound him on 6s instead of 5s and he heals a wound at the end of the turn. So you are right the 260 point guy only killed 6 Marines forcing morals lost and didn't likely lose more then a single wound

[themoocher]

Also the fact he is an elite and not a heavy support option

[fuerchtegott]

Jun 11, 2017 22:35:42 GMT themoocher said:

Jun 11, 2017 20:52:26 GMT fuerchtegott said:

Haruspex is 90 more point than the Toxicrene. Almost Swarmlord level. It is tough, but the big guns still wound it on 3+ (Lascannons).

Lets looks at its Melee potential: Average 8 attacks, 4 hits, 3 wounds against Space Marines. They get a 4+ save. One, maybe two bonus attacks hitting again on 4+. Congratulations, your near-Swarmlord expensive melee monster just killed 3 Space Marines (The dice are in your favor in this scenario.) .

Haruspex vs. 2,75 Carnifices should be the nidzilla question.

Small thing but he then attacks with the shovel claws for each model removed so he gets 3 more attacks hitting 2 of them wounding both and killing two more guys. This is also with fewer crack backs because Marines wound him on 6s instead of 5s and he heals a wound at the end of the turn. So you are right the 260 point guy only killed 6 Marines forcing morals lost and didn't likely lose more then a single wound

Sorry if i was hard to understand, with bonus attacks i meant the attacks of the shovelling claws.  Look at the numbers. I would love to use the Haruspex, but its not the melee monster i hoped it to be.

[Halollet]

Haru attacks
Tongue - 1/2*2/3*5/6 = 0.28 MEQ
Maw Attacks: 2 being the average dice roll for number of attacks
2*4*1/2*2/3*1/2= 5.3
Gains claw attacks
5.3*1/2*5/6*5/6= 1.84

7.42 MEQ dies and it gains 1.28 wounds back.
2.58 Marines fight back, and lets throw in a power fist
Pistols and normal melee
1.58*2/6*2/3 = 0.35
Powerfist
2/2/2*5/6= 0.42
So 42% chance to cause 2 wounds

Worse case scenario with Acid blood
2.35/6=0.39

Then, marine's moral test
2.19 left at Ld 8, on a 3+ the rest of the unit is wiped out, yes they have a reroll but still.

So by the looks of it, a haruspex can eat a whole marine unit of 10 in a turn and barely be scratched in return. Maybe even ending up with more wounds than when it started. And with all of its attack doing d3 damage, I would send this thing fter multiwound models too. Primaris Marines = Lunch!


Carnifex attacks
3 of them are only 4 points more with just 2x Talons and Scythes

Battering Ram
3/2 = 1.5

Talons
3*5(1/2+1/6*1/2)*2/3*5/6 = 4.86

So 6.36 dead
3.63 Marines fight back, and lets throw in a power fist
Pistols and normal melee
2.63*2*1/3*2/3 = 1.17
Powerfist
2*1/2*2/3*5/6= 0.55
So 55% chance to cause 2 wounds

Carnifex would lose 3.17 wounds

So, there you go, Haruspex is better at assault then 3 fexes and has the ability to sustain itself.

But then we also have to look at Haru's 13 wounds vs the fexes total of 24, and that they can be upgraded to go a little faster, or take away one attack for some shooting, and they deal 3 damage with each melee attack, but after all that they're more expencive. So the haru is a bit cheaper as a pure CC beast and he's a good target for Catalyst since you can only cast it once per turn in competitive play.

So I think the two units are rather balanced. ... which is surprising coming from geedubs.

[fuerchtegott]

Jun 12, 2017 14:41:07 GMT Halollet said:

2*4*1/2*2/3*1/2= 5.3
Gains claw attacks
5.3*1/2*5/6*5/6= 1.84

Haruspex:

2*4*1/2*2/3*1/2=  1.3                                                      2*4*/1/2*2/3*  2 (Your math i believe) = 5.3
Claw attacks: 1.3*1/2*5/6*5/6= 0.45

--> 1.75 Dead Marines on attack on average

ONE Carnifex:

Talons 5(1/2+1/6*1/2)*2/3*5/6 = 1.62    Battering Ram= 0.5

--> 2.12 Dead Marines on attack on average

Bit i guess it raises the chance for acid blood wounds? And it is a lot tougher than the Carnifex. Just 180 points more expensive.

Edit: Grasping Tongue and Acid Blood put Melee Carnifex and Haruspex on the same offensive output.

[Halollet]

.......... Oh.

Lesson today kids, don't do mathhammer before the coffee kicks in.


That's really sad how little that thing does. A perfect roll would have him take out 25 models but on average only takes out 2? ....

[fuerchtegott]

Yeah its sad, would have loved to use the Haruspex.





Toxicrene:

Choking Spores --> 0.325
Toxic Lashes Shooting --> 0.778
Toxic Lashes Melee --> 1.333

+Acid Blood +Hypertoxic Miasma

[themoocher]

4 attacks at 4+ to hit is really crippling

[Halollet]

Even against GEQ doesn't seem that good.
Haru
2*4/2*5/6 = 3.33
Claws
3.33/2*5/6 = 1.3875

so 4.7 GEQ.... that's... just sad.

fex with thresher scythe
2*4/2*2/3*2/3 = 1.77 + Battering Ram= 0.5 = 2.27
Hmm... Talons?
5(1/2+1/6*1/2)*5/6 = 2.43 + Battering Ram= 0.5 = 2.93

Um.. .did I do that right? I'm questioning myself now, otherwise might as well take the bone mace for less points.

So... all carnifex list anyone?

[able]

The haruspex seems to be optimised against T7 5+ 2w targets (of which there are none) while simultaneously being in combat with a land raider. Under those conditions it is fantastic!