Thoughts on Lictors with new 8th rules

[TheHiveKing]

im looking at what we know of the 8th rules and it looks promising for nids in general, but i was wondering how lictors would do. obviously we dont have the rules for it, but being able to charge after coming in from reserves sounds good. do you think they will see some more play with 8th?

[stonehorse]

We simply don't know, as we haven't seen the full game rules let alone the Lictor rules.

Until then we may as well wait, but talk about what we have seen.

[Threeshades]

I think all the models that are currently used anywhere from barely to not at all will see more use in the new edition. If only for the assurances I heard from Frontline Gaming, since they have played the game very extensively already.

[rroach]

I think the general rule for DS is 9 inches away. With the Lictor, he might allow others to break that rule.

But other than the Mawloc and Trygon, who really uses DS that much? The whole rule might be scrapped. The Mawloc requires special rules to work properly, and the Trygon rules are already known.

They might be given special rules to hunt characters, especially now that characters cannot be hidden in groups. Perhaps cannot be shot at without an LD check?

[rpricew]

What do you think needs to be changed / improved about the Lictor?

Already, the changes to the Damage Modifiers will benefit him some. He will get a 5+ save vs bolters not, where he didn't before (without a cover save). Stealth is currently an unknown quantity, but could be a (-1) to hit modifier. It's also possible that he will get a "Lightning Reflexes type save 5++ Inv" to help him in Close Combat.

4th Edition Lictor:


5th Edition Lictor:

[Threeshades]

His wound pool will probably be doubled which already will immensely improve his survivability against infantry both shooting and melee.

I can also imagine that his chameleon skin will reduce hit rolls against him by -1 both in shooting and melee as well.

Pheromone trail may be an interesting one, since with the way reserves work now it is entirely obsolete. The only thing it could possibly do now is to allow <Hive Fleet> models coming from reserves to set up near the lictor, ignoring their own rule's restriction on distance to enemy models. That would be incredibly useful.

[nidzy]

Any speculation on what the wound count might be for something this size like warriors and lictors? That could be a benefit as well: also it doesn't sound like most heavy weapons will inflict "mortal wounds" so he might have a better chance of living through those str 8 shots if the opponent rolls on the lower end of their d6 wounds.

[rroach]

I doubt anything that isn't a MC will get a wound boost.

[omnivore]

Oh please please make flesh hooks a way to stop disengaging...the image of a lictor reeling in a guardsman like a fish as he tried to run us too good!

[gigasnail]

May 20, 2017 20:25:29 GMT rroach said:

I doubt anything that isn't a MC will get a wound boost.

Terminators are 2 wounds now. All bets are off, guys.

[jesses]

May 20, 2017 20:25:29 GMT rroach said:

I doubt anything that isn't a MC will get a wound boost.

^ This.

We have NO evidence that Wounds are going up in a general sense, and some reasons too doubt it:

- Space Marines are still only W1, as are the much more expensive Rubric Marines.

- They explicitly said they want this to be are bloodier game.

- Wounds on Monstrous Creatures and Vehicles have only gone up to the point that they take a roughly comparable amount of suffessful Lascannon/equivalent hits to destroy. A Dread has W8 now, which is two to three Lascannon hits on average (average Damage is 3 or 4). This is comparable to now. This holds true for Leman Russ Tanks and Annihilation Barges.

They aren't try to make things more durable to heavy weapons, they are trying to make them equivalent while taking away the chance to 1-shot them and making them resistant to medium guns. They want to make weapons have appropriate roles so that mass S6-7 isn't the absolute superior go-to choice.

- The only models that have gone up otherwise are ones they are trying to make largely immune to small arms fire - Terminators and the new Primaris Marines.

- They clearly took out double T = Instant Death because it was superfluous - most of those weapons will instant kill you anyways with the Damage roll.

So given all that, what is making anyone think that things like Lictors will get more Wounds? I doubt Warriors will get more Wounds either.

Tyrant Guard ~maybe~ because they need to still function in their role as bodyguard units, so they might go up to 4-6 Wounds to make them likely to survive a D6 Damage weapon, and Biovores might go up 1 to bring them in line with Pyrovores so that when the BioPyro plastic kit comes out tey are equivalent, but past that I think people are getting their hopes up for nothing in terms of Wounds.

[Threeshades]

May 20, 2017 20:25:29 GMT rroach said:

I doubt anything that isn't a MC will get a wound boost.

Au contraire, mon ami!

The Imperial Knights article mentions that the Knight's Chainsword with its flat 6 damage can even cleave a chaos lord in half. Suggesting that a chaos lord now has significantly more than its old 3 wounds.

Between that and terminators growing an extra wound, i think its not unlikely that models in the mid range will get extra wounds as well. I could see anything with 2 or 3 wounds get a doubling.

And it makes sense, firstly, with so many weapons dealing more damage than before they will need something to weather the storm, and secondly, if all the monsters and vehicles jump into the range from 8 to (however many a warlord titan might have) wounds, there would be a gap in the profiles. Not a single unit in the game with 4, 5, 6 or 7 wounds.

[rroach]

If our MCs are faster, more durable, and more dangerous, then our Warrior-sized infantry models don't 'need' a wound boost. More firepower will be needed to bring down MCs, meaning fewer shots at the Warriors.

I think any buffs we'll see will be to rebalancing guns and greater assault flexibility. Again, getting them to close combat faster means less wounds taken to shooting.

[Threeshades]

May 20, 2017 21:15:03 GMT rroach said:

If our MCs are faster, more durable, and more dangerous, then our Warrior-sized infantry models don't 'need' a wound boost. More firepower will be needed to bring down MCs, meaning fewer shots at the Warriors.

I think any buffs we'll see will be to rebalancing guns and greater assault flexibility. Again, getting them to close combat faster means less wounds taken to shooting.

The wound boost the MCs get is just about equivalent to the damage boost to Heavy weapons, while light weapons will have a doubled likelyhood to wound most of our monstrous creatures, so the extra wounds are just compensating for how much they will suffer.

And just becoming faster, tougher and more dangerous is just making up for how laughable they are right now.

I wouldn't count on them being able to divert attention completely away from mid bugs.

[gigasnail]

Lol