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Post by paxmiles on Sept 20, 2016 16:10:22 GMT
Might have the name wrong, I'm talking about the OTHER big pod thing that the tyranid drop pod kit can make. It's a T5 model with 6 wounds and it infiltrates. As far as I read it, it is consider a scoring unit (not objective secured, but scoring, unlike the spore mines). It also produces spore mines and those big spore mines, which, under closer inspection, no longer explode when shot at. Only downside seems to be that it counts as a heavy slot (an extremely cheap heavy slot).
Was thinking about running more elites and fast attack, anyway, so I might have the free slots for these guys. Any experience with them? I've never even seen one on the table (they always take the drop pod version).
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Post by blackrainbow on Sept 20, 2016 23:36:39 GMT
Sporocyt is correct, heavy that can make mines each turn and can do one mucolid per game. I've tried it twice (vs Necron & Eldar) and even with Infiltrate (can't Outflank, as it is Immobile) it did not do anything affective all the game. Vs Necrons it made spores that floated up but every part of our combat was so far away that it was basically a handycap. Vs Eldar, similar but as his (D-flamer) unit made mince meat of me, the spores didn't even slow them down for the objective I had it parked on. In both games the extended Synapse granted gave a Zoanthrope and a Malanthrope extra range for one turn before they slogged on to combat and more effective roles, lone biovore in tow.
I really like the idea of it as an option, especially as the tyrranocyte is overcosted. Sadly, this is not a viable alternative.
I'd like to see them changed a bit personally, into some kind of Fortification, but that is just me wish-listing.
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Post by paxmiles on Sept 21, 2016 2:20:54 GMT
Sporocyt is correct, heavy that can make mines each turn and can do one mucolid per game. I've tried it twice (vs Necron & Eldar) and even with Infiltrate (can't Outflank, as it is Immobile) it did not do anything affective all the game. Vs Necrons it made spores that floated up but every part of our combat was so far away that it was basically a handycap. Vs Eldar, similar but as his (D-flamer) unit made mince meat of me, the spores didn't even slow them down for the objective I had it parked on. In both games the extended Synapse granted gave a Zoanthrope and a Malanthrope extra range for one turn before they slogged on to combat and more effective roles, lone biovore in tow. I really like the idea of it as an option, especially as the tyrranocyte is overcosted. Sadly, this is not a viable alternative. I'd like to see them changed a bit personally, into some kind of Fortification, but that is just me wish-listing. I don't really think death by D flamer is anything to be ashamed of. Any tyranid unit would be pained by that weapon. And at the 75pt mark, dying quickly to enemy fire isn't that big a deal. It's still very annoying, but they have to shoot at something, and I'd much rather the 75pt model that can't move, than a more mobile model. Still, I'm hearing you and will think about it. |
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Post by blackrainbow on Sept 21, 2016 16:14:18 GMT
I was hoping the spore mines could make it far enough away (oooo, big 3" move) to offer some resistance between them, but that flamer just barely caught everything. Toast. The spores, even in a non-flamer, much less D-flamer, don't do much. At best I can see them slowly drifting for two turns to make a speed bump for something. Looking at the sporocyt as an unmovable object that just spits potential speed bumps ain't its championing call. I suppose plopping it on an objective and putting out mines isn't horribly bad, would definitely add a thematic element to any game. If you don't have one, get a soda can and proxy it a game or two.
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Post by mattblowers on Sept 21, 2016 17:38:44 GMT
They have been terrible for me. I built my t-cyte kits so they could be played either way. They performed so poorly I glued them to only be a t-cyte. With the new rulings they are flat out awful. They die easily and can be mitigated by almost anything. I can't find any purpose whatsoever for them even in a fluffy list.
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Post by paxmiles on Sept 21, 2016 19:51:07 GMT
I was hoping the spore mines could make it far enough away (oooo, big 3" move) to offer some resistance between them, but that flamer just barely caught everything. Toast. The spores, even in a non-flamer, much less D-flamer, don't do much. At best I can see them slowly drifting for two turns to make a speed bump for something. Looking at the sporocyt as an unmovable object that just spits potential speed bumps ain't its championing call. I suppose plopping it on an objective and putting out mines isn't horribly bad, would definitely add a thematic element to any game. If you don't have one, get a soda can and proxy it a game or two. Dunno, looks about as useful as those vengeance weapon batteries with punisher cannons (same cost). They don't really do anything, except sit there. They don't die unless the opponent actually tries to kill them. They pepper enemy units that get too close, but they don't hit much or kill much. That said, they offer two tactical values to the army. First, they are big models you can't see under or through. Tyranids, being without vehicles, really need this, as the best way to deny D weapons and a whole ton of other weapons is just to deny line of sight to another unit. That Tyrannocyte, thanks to the tentacles dangling on his near skimmer base, cannot really deny LOS. Most of the tyranids have lots of holes in their stance, making seeing through the model difficult, but attainable. Lack of LOS is the difference between a 5+ cover save and not being able to be shot. And if they can draw LOS, they can put a pie plate down. Second, since they are MCs, they will draw fire that should be dedicated to taking down your other MCs. When I run vengance weapon batteries, their main value is that they are cheap AV14, so they draw the fire that should be aimed at AV14 vehicles. If I do a list with 3 land raiders (about the most you can realistically do at 2k), I often bring 2 Vengeance Batteries. The batteries do nothing all game, but the opponent now has 5 AV 14 targets, not 3. The Land Raiders do last longer as a result. And yeah, despite the Battlecannon, Punisher or Icarus upgrades, the vengeance battery doesn't ever do anything (mainly because it has to shoot the closest target, like the sporocysts, and it has that same BS2). As far as I'm concerned, the spore generation and extended synapse is a contextual bonus. They might be useful, and might not. The spore mines offering no VP for dying means that they aren't a liability even if they don't ever do any damage. So if the spores draw fire, that should be enough. I love that spores no longer explode when shot at, adds many more tactical options for using them with your tyranids. With the new rulings they are flat out awful. Which ruling are you referencing? The only one I've found regarding Sporocysts is dealing with outflanking them, which should have been an obvious Q&A. |
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Post by No One on Sept 22, 2016 8:20:44 GMT
First, they are big models you can't see under or through. Tyranids, being without vehicles, really need this, as the best way to deny D weapons and a whole ton of other weapons is just to deny line of sight to another unit. That Tyrannocyte, thanks to the tentacles dangling on his near skimmer base, cannot really deny LOS. Most of the tyranids have lots of holes in their stance, making seeing through the model difficult, but attainable. Lack of LOS is the difference between a 5+ cover save and not being able to be shot. And if they can draw LOS, they can put a pie plate down. Reliably denying LoS would be great. Can it do so? (Having never seen one on the table) is it big enough to block LoS to our MCs? (because really, that's pretty much all we care about  ). Also consider how it's going to block LoS. It's going to block it from pretty much 1 direction - straight on. If you infiltrate it, that becomes even more pronounced, with enemies even slightly offset from that straight line likely able to draw LoS. If you don't infiltrate it forward, you're blocking LoS for T1, likely to only 1 or 2 MCs depending on size (i.e. probably not flyrants), and that's it - useless for the rest of the game. Instinctive fire. |
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Post by paxmiles on Sept 22, 2016 12:39:48 GMT
First, they are big models you can't see under or through. Tyranids, being without vehicles, really need this, as the best way to deny D weapons and a whole ton of other weapons is just to deny line of sight to another unit. That Tyrannocyte, thanks to the tentacles dangling on his near skimmer base, cannot really deny LOS. Most of the tyranids have lots of holes in their stance, making seeing through the model difficult, but attainable. Lack of LOS is the difference between a 5+ cover save and not being able to be shot. And if they can draw LOS, they can put a pie plate down. Reliably denying LoS would be great. Can it do so? (Having never seen one on the table) is it big enough to block LoS to our MCs? (because really, that's pretty much all we care about ). Also consider how it's going to block LoS. It's going to block it from pretty much 1 direction - straight on. If you infiltrate it, that becomes even more pronounced, with enemies even slightly offset from that straight line likely able to draw LoS. If you don't infiltrate it forward, you're blocking LoS for T1, likely to only 1 or 2 MCs depending on size (i.e. probably not flyrants), and that's it - useless for the rest of the game. Yeah, couldn't find any direct pictures online of it compared, but I did find a picture of the big spore mine compared to a Walk-rant (since the winged ones are fly-rants), Big spores are just under the height of the hive tyrant, I also saw a picture comparing those big spores with the sporocyst, which is taller and wider by a wide margin. Yeah, it's huge. Big enough to hide a carnifex and most of the non-flying MCs. The Winged MCs, trygon/mawlocs and those toxicrine tentacles are too big. With 1 sporocyst, you could minimally hide something from one vantage point, you'd need 2+ sporocysts to really hide things. Really, though, between terrain features and these things, you should be able to place just one to block LOS to something on the ground. Again, as mentioned, the sporocyst isn't very durable if it actually comes under fire. Such a tactic might work for one shooting phase. Main value is if the oppnoent has one big gun that can't see a key adavancing ground unit for a shooting phase. So you'd have to time things right and make sure that when it was a shield, you'd have something behind it that really needed to be hiden. Could work longer if paired with a Skyshield Landing pad, or another option that gave them better saves, but I wouldn't rely on it all game. As a non-vehicle, it can take advantage of area terrain much better than drop pods can, so there is that working in your favor. I will also note that being a huge model means that infiltrate is probably only getting you 6" closer to the enemy's deploy zone (assuming a 24" no man's land). Instinctive fire was FAQed to work exactly how I thought it would, so I didn't think of it when you mentioned the rulings. Thanks for the clarity. 100pts for 5 large blasts with 36" of range (barbed stranglers) was just absurd. As is, it's still potentially pretty broken, but now the opponent does have to put units in all arcs to make that happen, which balances it a bit. I think, if going for the shooting, the tyrannocyte is the better buy, since the deep strike and movement ability make it easier to pick targets that it is for the sporocyst. I am tinkering with the idea of running a Tau Shieldine fortification with a sporocyst mounted on it, I don't think the model will fit, but if it does, that would create an option for the Sporocyst to move around the table (but in doing so, you could draw LOS under it, so it just changes it's role, rather than adding to the existing role. |
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Post by mattblowers on Sept 22, 2016 14:24:07 GMT
It's not really infiltrate, it's just a mechanism for placing the model, you can't keep in reserves and outflank. A couple of servo skulls and this thing isn't going much of anywhere.
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Post by blackrainbow on Sept 22, 2016 16:48:17 GMT
I am tinkering with the idea of running a Tau Shieldine fortification with a sporocyst mounted on it, I don't think the model will fit, but if it does, that would create an option for the Sporocyst to move around the table (but in doing so, you could draw LOS under it, so it just changes it's role, rather than adding to the existing role. I find that utterly hilarious, both to picture the models and any fluffy explanation. |
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Post by paxmiles on Sept 22, 2016 22:59:10 GMT
It's not really infiltrate, it's just a mechanism for placing the model, you can't keep in reserves and outflank. A couple of servo skulls and this thing isn't going much of anywhere. Yeah, I know. More than likely, I'd deploy it with the rest of my army and not bother with infiltrate. Depends if the opponent brings things like the mentioned servo skulls. Even them bringing other infiltrators would make it hard to place this unit. I am tinkering with the idea of running a Tau Shieldine fortification with a sporocyst mounted on it, I don't think the model will fit, but if it does, that would create an option for the Sporocyst to move around the table (but in doing so, you could draw LOS under it, so it just changes it's role, rather than adding to the existing role. I find that utterly hilarious, both to picture the models and any fluffy explanation. Right. Would be both funny and a nifty option. As for fluff, could say the tyranids invaded Laputa...Though I'm partial to it being an infested terran command center. |
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Post by kazetanade on Sept 23, 2016 20:15:20 GMT
It's not really infiltrate, it's just a mechanism for placing the model, you can't keep in reserves and outflank. A couple of servo skulls and this thing isn't going much of anywhere. Yeah, I know. More than likely, I'd deploy it with the rest of my army and not bother with infiltrate. Depends if the opponent brings things like the mentioned servo skulls. Even them bringing other infiltrators would make it hard to place this unit. I find that utterly hilarious, both to picture the models and any fluffy explanation. Right. Would be both funny and a nifty option. As for fluff, could say the tyranids invaded Laputa...Though I'm partial to it being an infested terran command center. Infested Command Centre made my day. |
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Post by paxmiles on Sept 25, 2016 6:32:37 GMT
Tau Shieldline and my Sporocyst arrived today. No pictures for now, as cell phone decided to break today, too.
Con: Sporocyst is a bit smaller than anticipated. Not certain total TLOS blocking is going to work for all the tyranid MCs. It will definitely conceal my metal carnifexen, but I'm not sure how well it will work for the newer incarnations of the tyranid MCs. Should be fine for concealing the tyranid prime, warriors, legged zoans, and any of the smaller infantry.
Pro: Sporocyst's (100mm round) base fits perfectly inside the rounded section of the Tau Shieldline. I'd even go so far as to say GW had this base size in mind when making the shieldline. So, Infested Terran Command Center is a go.
As an aside, the leftover bits from not making the tyrannocyte mean that I have a pretty large half-sphere of fleshy blob. I've already ordered a second Sporocyst (should arrive very soon), so I'll have a full fleshy sphere. Definitely something to make an even larger spore mine with, for apocalypse games...
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Post by valdrog on Sept 30, 2016 13:30:43 GMT
You guys forget the Node ability thing, it boosts Synapse range, so park a Swarmlord behind it, use the Swarmlord to guard the backfield and get that synapse bossted, I think the boost is an extra 6 inches, add that to the Swarmlords 18 and then add Dominion, you are goign to cover a Lot of the table with just 1 guy.
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Post by gigasnail on Sept 30, 2016 15:52:23 GMT
No one really forgot about it, it's just not very useful.
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). Also consider how it's going to block LoS. It's going to block it from pretty much 1 direction - straight on. If you infiltrate it, that becomes even more pronounced, with enemies even slightly offset from that straight line likely able to draw LoS. If you don't infiltrate it forward, you're blocking LoS for T1, likely to only 1 or 2 MCs depending on size (i.e. probably not flyrants), and that's it - useless for the rest of the game.
