Things to know if I haven't touched Nids since the codex?

[Vallasch]

So it's been a while since I've even browsed this board, let alone said anything. Basically when the last codex dropped, GW managed to do the impossible by making endless numbers of mysterious space monster locusts boring. Since then I haven't touched my favourite 40k faction in any particular, but have sighed and become even more depressed as the new rulebook came and nerfed smash so that tyrants and trygons would lose fights to dreadnaughts. Seen them continue to reinvent the wheel and produce one giant monster after another that fills no gap or new role at all, beyond refilling the ones that were fine until GW botched them.

I've often thought of my beloved nids and if it might be time to take another look, but the absurd number of additional disparate datasheets and resources that have come since give me a headache to think about, so I've kept on putting it off. However, the reappearance of genestealer hybrids and the beautiful patriarch model have reminded me how much I miss them.

So here are my questions:

I prefer a traditional looking/balanced army (A few big swarm broods, a few of the elites and backed by a handful of monsters), is this serviceable in any way? As in, I don't mind losing now and then, but I don't want the game to be a throwaway experience time after time.

Which additional resources are worth looking into and am I going to need a lever-arch file just to sort and carry all of the additional rules?

In the game are genestealers the iconic deadly creatures they used to be and are still referenced as being in everything else, or are they still a bit toss?

Should I even bother yet, or continue to hope that one day the next codex might be the one?

Thank you!

[gigasnail]

a whole lot depends on what level of competitiveness you and the group of people you game with go for. if your group is cutting edge netlisting, well, you're going to have a much rougher time and be constrained on what units are good. if your group is more casual, then nearly anything in the book will work.

most people/groups are going to fall somewhere in between.

to answer your questions:

what you are calling a balanced list doesn't really exist anywhere in any faction any more. there are ways to get more bodies on the table, some of them are bad (subterranean swarm), some ok (endless swarm), some of them are pretty good (skyblight).

additional resources? leviathan rising II has skyblight in it. the first one has the genestealer and lictor formations in it (these are ok, but not really competitive. you'll get more mileage out of single lictors). imperial armor 4 v2 has the new rules for the malanthrope (excellent) and the dimachaeron (mediocre). it's a beautiful book but hardly a must-buy. you really want the shield of baal book, as it has the Hive Fleet Detachment which is very good.

genestealers out of the book are garbage. while killy as hell, they cost too much, are too fragile, and too slow. the new genestealer cult rules from Deathwatch:Overkill show some promise but right now are sort of limited because the named patriarch and magus are unique (one per army each) so their abilities aren't used as fully as they could be (they have telepathy access, so shrouded/invisibility). their formation is interesting, as the entire thing infiltrates and can assault T1 (but it's not a good as it could be because we have no way to get first turn consistently). genestealer hybrid acolytes will end up being some of the best assault units in the game with 4 S4 rending attacks on the charge, with assault grenades, at 7ppm. there should be a min-dex release a la harlequins before long.

you picked an interesting time to come back, things are in rapid flux.

[angelwing]

Mar 4, 2016 0:51:45 GMT gigasnail said:

a whole lot depends on what level of competitiveness you and the group of people you game with go for. if your group is cutting edge netlisting, well, you're going to have a much rougher time and be constrained on what units are good. if your group is more casual, then nearly anything in the book will work.

most people/groups are going to fall somewhere in between.

Agree with this.
In a causal environment you can run your bit of everything list (including stealers) just fine, with an even win / loss. However, as soon as anyone starts looking into ramping up the competitiveness you'll find many tyranid units will start to fall away.


For supplement rules, you only need Imperial armour 4 2nd edition and download the free datasheets from GW website to cover all the tyranid models currently available. Of course you might not even need those depending on your personal collection of models.
There are lots of formations in other supplements which can be good fun, but if you are playing causally they are not required. Check the 'Where to find tyranid rules' thread for the complete list.

[steviebizzle]

I too recently came back to Nids from the Warhammer Fantasy wilderness, and did the same blinded navigation of the new supplements.

Basically, the ones that you want are likely going to be:

Skyblight formation
Hive Fleet Detatchment
Spore Field
Living Artillery Node (maybe)


We don't have many worthwhile formations, normal configurations are CAD + either HFD or Skyblight.

Quick search on google images will find the pages you need - but definitely don't print these out, that would be wrong.

I will mirror what others have said, if you are playing casually, bring what you want - we have loads of cool units that work *fine* but as soon as you start playing competitively, its max out Flyrants and that's about it.

[biomassbob]

I would also add that you need to be clear with your opponent on what casual means as different people take this differently. A player could slightly tone down a list that still makes it brutal for casual nids but sees it as casual because the player wouldn't bring it to a competitive meta because it would hamper his/her army vs the nasty lists/armies out there.

[mattblowers]

Mar 4, 2016 11:07:19 GMT steviebizzle said:

Quick search on google images will find the pages you need - but definitely don't print these out, that would be wrong.

Yeah, Definately don't do that.

[blackrainbow]

There are also some nice information collections such as bloodofkittens.com/formation-compendium-2/

That's a great place to start, along with the "where to find tyranid rules" thread. Also, never add .ru to any of your searches.

[Hive Tyrant Qiln]

Uh...
*Hides kindle*
Nothing with .ru here, don't mind me.

[commandersasha]

Interesting, I have come to TTH tonight with almost exactly the same questions, and with the same history! 6th and the codex pushed me away, Genestealer cults have me pining!

[gigasnail]

The cults look promising, for sure.

[cypheon]

things to know (competitively):

if it ain't got wings, it's just cannon fodder.
if it's cannon fodder, don't waste a lot of points protecting it.
the only exception is the mawloc. definitely protect that bad boy.
the new formations really just drive home the point of "wings or bust".. but they do make the wings that much better.

things to know (casually):

spam anything that doesn't have wings and hope you're still on the table by the end of opponent turn 3.
there are a few formations to keep the ground pounders alive an extra turn, and one or two to help bring them back after their inevitable grisly demise. but as long as you aren't playing against tau... or spacemarine battle companies.. or eldar wraith-anything, you'll have fun.

[tomb]

It's worth reading up on the latest terrain rules and how infantry /monstrous creatures can gain cover saves by 'having a toe in cover'. Then consider that the Malenthrope (Forgeworld new version of IA 4) is our best source of shrouded. Consider the aegis line, void sheild generator, commes relay and the bastion. 
Also worth learning how a great deal of other races have acces to 'ignores coves', ap3 and grav guns. 
Read the rules for Maelstrom objectives, with swarm armies you will have a good chance at Maelstrom as long as you have a means of claiming the objectives in your opponents deployment. If your likely to play ITC (west coast America and elsewhere) read up on what ITC comp is and how the rules, objectives and army composition are modified.
Reconsider deep strike rippers and look at how cheap muculids spores are as troops.
Check if your carnifexen and tyrants have twin linked devourers.
If you want to go combat oriented read the excellent Nid assault threads here on TTH (Matt Blowers).
Use the 'blood of kittens blog' formations information (as recommended above) to see what nids have and to see what others have (Black rainbow).
Double check Cad, allies, formations and unbound.

Then ask, am I up for putting the Nids on the table and enjoying the game come what may. Or do I want to play competitively and give my nids the best chance they can have against the Meta.

The games changed a great deal since the codex dropped but with cults and the prospect of a new codex getting a game or two in with your nids now will allow you to see where nids are at. Maybe choose your opponent wisely and ask them to help you sus out your nids. 
Read BigPigs article over on Frontline gaming for an example of Cults playstyle and a quality opponent.

[arapaima]

Nid meta is currently like this. We truely are an adaptable race, when all else gets the shaft, we evolve to a higher form of war by bringing air supremacy on our enemies..

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqtehtSB0LI

[purestrain]

Mar 7, 2016 16:35:07 GMT arapaima said:

Nid meta is currently like this. We truely are an adaptable race, when all else gets the shaft, we evolve to a higher form of war by bringing air supremacy on our enemies..

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqtehtSB0LI

Unless they get skyfire from a MO, which happens much too often to me