Post by elricofgrans on Aug 31, 2015 2:47:53 GMT
I only came back to 40K this month, so I am still very much learning. I have played two games with the Nids so far and am beginning to establish opinions on units. I thought I would share what my thoughts have been to see if more experienced players agree, or if I am failing to see a tactical use for something. I do not yet own the Baal supplement, but from what I have read it seems like the drop pod is the only good new 'unit' it adds. I also do not have any Forge World as it did not used to be a 'thing' when I played before. I know everyone swears by Malanthropes these days and am a little torn on investing in them. In terms of Formations, the only one I have run so far was the Endless Swarm (the returns on 4+ one). Sure, I never stood a chance in a Kill Point mission, but it was darn fun to play and made Gaunts a lot more useful. The remaining formations are either gack, or I do not own to models to run them (eg Skystrike Swarm).
HQ
Hive Tyrant: I have played both a Walkrant with Tyrant Guard and a Flyrant. The Walkrant was pretty useless, simply being too slow to pose a threat to my opponent. He simply used his speed to avoid the Walkrant all game and left me with nothing else on the table at the point I conceded. The Flyrant was much more useful, and quite fun to use too (Flying is new to me and pretty cool). I do not think my Flyrant killed his points worth, but he was consistently useful. I think a Devourer-Flyrant will be a staple in my list now! The Psyker aspect of the Tyrant was pretty wasted. In the first game, my Walkrant had Psychic Scream and Warp Blast; the second game, my Flyrant has Catalyst and Warp Blast. Psychic Scream, on a slow unit, was obviously completely useless. In fact, I doubt it would have been useful on the Flyrant either. It seems a badly designed power. Warp Blast is OK; on the Flyrant, it was pretty good (essentially firing three weapons per turn!). I would not mind getting this again in future as it helps with both vehicles and MEQs. Catalyst was freaking hilarious: I wish I could just get that every time without having to roll
A near unkillable HQ and another unit getting buffed up? Yes please!
Tervigon: I do not own one of these yet. It looks too expensive, especially with the 30 Gaunt 'tax', for what it provides. Would I be correct to assume there is no point in using these in the current codex?
Troops
Genestealers: I ran multiple broods of these in both games. They are fragile, expensive, high-priority targets that never once earned their points. I have tried both Infiltrating and Outflanking, but both result in fragile, assault-only infantry standing around wishing they had a special rule allowing them to charge. In my last game, 15 Stealers managed to kill a grand total of one MEQ! As much as I love these guys, they just seem completely useless in the current rules.
Hormagants: Fast and plentiful, but a little weak for their points. In the first game, these guys were pretty useless: not fast enough to deal with a mechanised/bike list, and butchered by overwatch. In the second game, they worked perfectly as a bullet sponge, tarpit and general distraction. When they actually got into combat, however, they were universally worthless. I do not like the idea of upgrading these guys (too expensive), but I think they NEED something to be able to achieve anything more than soak up bullets.
Rippers: Not yet run these guys. They seem useful as a super-low-priority objective holder, but both times I dropped them from the list because they looked so damned boring! I may try them next time, but they still seem like the most dull option in the codex.
Termagants: Cheap and weak. These guys are such low-priority targets that they are actually surprisingly useful. People ignore them, so they are able to fire away killing very little, but get another round of firing the next turn! If I need to, I can charge them into an assault to tie up something nasty and there are enough bodies that they will tarpit Mr Big. On paper these guys are terrible, but on the table they are as valuable as you could possibly want a 4 point bug to be. I will definitely keep these! I love how we can now mix weapons, as this seems like it will be well worth doing. I have used both Fleshborers and Spinefists and consider them both equally useful (I just wish it were easier to tell how many of each were in a given unit); next time, I will mix in some Devourers to see how they go. Very happy with these guys!
Tyranid Warriors: I have used these with Devourers, Deathspitters, and one with a Barbed Strangler. I do not believe my Warriors scored a single kill in either game (too weak for vehicles, not enough dakka for infantry), they were high-priority targets and super-fragile. They seem like terrible units, but I still think they are the best choice for Synapse. I love the look of them on the table, and believe I need them for Synapse, but I really do not like how useless they are.
Elites
Haruspex: I do not own one of these, and I doubt I will bother. The rules are terrible, the model is ugly, and I cannot see it fulfilling a valuable role.
Hive Guard: I am on the fence with these guys. Their weapons are brilliant and they have to be the best option we have for light armour, but they are just not very reliable for their cost. The ability to put them in LoS-blocking terrain and still function makes them pretty survivable for their cost, but BS3 Assault 2 makes them unreliable. So far, they have not been able to put out enough glances to take down a transport in a single turn, which is literally their only purpose. I will probably take them again, but more because of necessity than them being any good.
Lictors: I have not run these yet. They seem like they would only be worth using in a mass-DS list, as their Pheromone Trail seems to be the only useful thing they provide.
Pyrovores: I do not own these and I know I will not bother. Still the worst unit in 40K.
Venomthropes: I only just bought a unit of these. In their first game, they died turn one. They will definitely be in my list in future! On turn one, my opponent ignored the entire rest of my list and focused everything they had on taking out my Zoanthropes. A single, 90 point unit absorbed the fire of a 1500 point list. If that was not totally worth it, I do not know what is. I am sure they over-performed that game and they may not be going to kill much (if anything) in future, but the tactical advantages of ruining my opponent's shooting phase cannot be underestimated.
Zoanthropes: I have been pretty disappointed by these. No shooting, weak in assault, fragile and high-priority targets. They help with Synapse, but their Warp Blast is (so far) the only useful Psyker power they have used, and in two games I have only taken out a single target with Zoanthropes (and even then I rolled Perils of the Warp). I have tried both a single brood of three and two broods of one with neither seeming to help much. The best thing they seem to add is more dispel dice to try and shut down my opponent's psychic phase. I doubt I will take them again.
Fast Attack
Harpy: I do not own one of these yet, and am undecided on whether or not to invest in one. The Stranglethorn on a flying platform seems interesting, but jinking would invalidate your main weapon. The dropping a spore mine while moving sounds hilarious and potentially useful, but can it be used after jinking the previous turn? If so, it seems more useful than a S5 Vector Strike (bleh). The Sonic Screech rule seems weird, as you would have to stop soaring to assault, which means you stop using it as the bomber it appears to be designed as. Is it worth adding one of these to my list?
Hive Crone: I just bought one and tried it in my last game. It was never able to use its template (jinking) and the Tentaclids were not terribly useful (maybe take off a HP from a flyer, if I am lucky), but the S8 Vector Strike paid off every turn and it drew fire away from my Hive Tyrant. For that alone, I felt it was worth its points.
Gargoyles: I am torn on these. They are expensive Termagants, but their extra movement seems like it would make them tactically more valuable, and their Blind would definitely make them a better tarpit. I suspect they would be a higher-priority target than Termagants too, making them less likely to be ignored turn after turn. If I can find the points, I may try them next game, but I have low expectations.
Raveners: I do not own any of these, and I am not convinced they are worth it. They look like Warriors who trade in Synapse for Deep Strike. I do not believe that is a good trade. They will DS, get shot off the table and have served no purpose.
Heavy Support
Biovores: I do not own any of these yet, but in both games I felt I needed some long-range pie. I suspect a brood of these may be my next purchase, though I hate the new minis for them. They would also require babysitting (likely 90 points of Warriors), which adds a bit of a tax to their cost.
Carnifex: So slow. The big cannon ones do not seem to put out enough dakka to justify their cost, while the Devourer and melee ones are useless until turn three or four. When they finally get into the action they earn their points pretty quickly. I can imagine those drop pods would make a Dakkafex pretty darn scary, but even then I am not convinced by the melee-fex builds. I will likely keep a Dakkafex in my list going forward, but it is still a little underwhelming.
Exocrine: I do not own one of these, and feel I am unlikely to do so any time soon. They are inferior to Hive Guard against transports, obsolete as anti-MEQ in an entire army of anti-infantry units, short-ranged and low Ld. Meh?
Mawloc: I do not own one of these yet, but they are definitely useful. A powerful pie plate that may strike trice in a single turn? Yummy! I am sure it will die after that, but I would expect it would have already more than earned its points (these things seem pretty cheap for what they provide). I will definitely consider one of these in the near future.
Trygon/Trygon Prime: Way too expensive and pretty useless. The bio-electric dakka is about as scary as a Leman Russ Punisher (ie laugh at the opponent who fielded it) and it does not live to assault. Even if I got one into assault, I cannot see it being all that good. I think these guys are 40-50 points over-costed for what they bring. The tunnel is nice, if you get one of these out turn two, but that is too unreliable to build a list around.
Tyrannofex: I do not own one of these and am undecided on whether or not to invest in one. A Torrent weapon is nothing spectacular, but the platform is sturdy enough to make it a little more interesting. It is slow and short-ranged, so it would not be a high-priority target, yet by the time your opponent decides to deal with it they will find it a little too late (do they shoot the Tyrannofex, the Dakkafex, the FMCs or the remaining Synapse?). I could see it providing a threat overload that could only help. Still, at that cost, it would be pretty hard to include on the list...
HQ
Hive Tyrant: I have played both a Walkrant with Tyrant Guard and a Flyrant. The Walkrant was pretty useless, simply being too slow to pose a threat to my opponent. He simply used his speed to avoid the Walkrant all game and left me with nothing else on the table at the point I conceded. The Flyrant was much more useful, and quite fun to use too (Flying is new to me and pretty cool). I do not think my Flyrant killed his points worth, but he was consistently useful. I think a Devourer-Flyrant will be a staple in my list now! The Psyker aspect of the Tyrant was pretty wasted. In the first game, my Walkrant had Psychic Scream and Warp Blast; the second game, my Flyrant has Catalyst and Warp Blast. Psychic Scream, on a slow unit, was obviously completely useless. In fact, I doubt it would have been useful on the Flyrant either. It seems a badly designed power. Warp Blast is OK; on the Flyrant, it was pretty good (essentially firing three weapons per turn!). I would not mind getting this again in future as it helps with both vehicles and MEQs. Catalyst was freaking hilarious: I wish I could just get that every time without having to roll
A near unkillable HQ and another unit getting buffed up? Yes please!Tervigon: I do not own one of these yet. It looks too expensive, especially with the 30 Gaunt 'tax', for what it provides. Would I be correct to assume there is no point in using these in the current codex?
Troops
Genestealers: I ran multiple broods of these in both games. They are fragile, expensive, high-priority targets that never once earned their points. I have tried both Infiltrating and Outflanking, but both result in fragile, assault-only infantry standing around wishing they had a special rule allowing them to charge. In my last game, 15 Stealers managed to kill a grand total of one MEQ! As much as I love these guys, they just seem completely useless in the current rules.
Hormagants: Fast and plentiful, but a little weak for their points. In the first game, these guys were pretty useless: not fast enough to deal with a mechanised/bike list, and butchered by overwatch. In the second game, they worked perfectly as a bullet sponge, tarpit and general distraction. When they actually got into combat, however, they were universally worthless. I do not like the idea of upgrading these guys (too expensive), but I think they NEED something to be able to achieve anything more than soak up bullets.
Rippers: Not yet run these guys. They seem useful as a super-low-priority objective holder, but both times I dropped them from the list because they looked so damned boring! I may try them next time, but they still seem like the most dull option in the codex.
Termagants: Cheap and weak. These guys are such low-priority targets that they are actually surprisingly useful. People ignore them, so they are able to fire away killing very little, but get another round of firing the next turn! If I need to, I can charge them into an assault to tie up something nasty and there are enough bodies that they will tarpit Mr Big. On paper these guys are terrible, but on the table they are as valuable as you could possibly want a 4 point bug to be. I will definitely keep these! I love how we can now mix weapons, as this seems like it will be well worth doing. I have used both Fleshborers and Spinefists and consider them both equally useful (I just wish it were easier to tell how many of each were in a given unit); next time, I will mix in some Devourers to see how they go. Very happy with these guys!
Tyranid Warriors: I have used these with Devourers, Deathspitters, and one with a Barbed Strangler. I do not believe my Warriors scored a single kill in either game (too weak for vehicles, not enough dakka for infantry), they were high-priority targets and super-fragile. They seem like terrible units, but I still think they are the best choice for Synapse. I love the look of them on the table, and believe I need them for Synapse, but I really do not like how useless they are.
Elites
Haruspex: I do not own one of these, and I doubt I will bother. The rules are terrible, the model is ugly, and I cannot see it fulfilling a valuable role.
Hive Guard: I am on the fence with these guys. Their weapons are brilliant and they have to be the best option we have for light armour, but they are just not very reliable for their cost. The ability to put them in LoS-blocking terrain and still function makes them pretty survivable for their cost, but BS3 Assault 2 makes them unreliable. So far, they have not been able to put out enough glances to take down a transport in a single turn, which is literally their only purpose. I will probably take them again, but more because of necessity than them being any good.
Lictors: I have not run these yet. They seem like they would only be worth using in a mass-DS list, as their Pheromone Trail seems to be the only useful thing they provide.
Pyrovores: I do not own these and I know I will not bother. Still the worst unit in 40K.
Venomthropes: I only just bought a unit of these. In their first game, they died turn one. They will definitely be in my list in future! On turn one, my opponent ignored the entire rest of my list and focused everything they had on taking out my Zoanthropes. A single, 90 point unit absorbed the fire of a 1500 point list. If that was not totally worth it, I do not know what is. I am sure they over-performed that game and they may not be going to kill much (if anything) in future, but the tactical advantages of ruining my opponent's shooting phase cannot be underestimated.
Zoanthropes: I have been pretty disappointed by these. No shooting, weak in assault, fragile and high-priority targets. They help with Synapse, but their Warp Blast is (so far) the only useful Psyker power they have used, and in two games I have only taken out a single target with Zoanthropes (and even then I rolled Perils of the Warp). I have tried both a single brood of three and two broods of one with neither seeming to help much. The best thing they seem to add is more dispel dice to try and shut down my opponent's psychic phase. I doubt I will take them again.
Fast Attack
Harpy: I do not own one of these yet, and am undecided on whether or not to invest in one. The Stranglethorn on a flying platform seems interesting, but jinking would invalidate your main weapon. The dropping a spore mine while moving sounds hilarious and potentially useful, but can it be used after jinking the previous turn? If so, it seems more useful than a S5 Vector Strike (bleh). The Sonic Screech rule seems weird, as you would have to stop soaring to assault, which means you stop using it as the bomber it appears to be designed as. Is it worth adding one of these to my list?
Hive Crone: I just bought one and tried it in my last game. It was never able to use its template (jinking) and the Tentaclids were not terribly useful (maybe take off a HP from a flyer, if I am lucky), but the S8 Vector Strike paid off every turn and it drew fire away from my Hive Tyrant. For that alone, I felt it was worth its points.
Gargoyles: I am torn on these. They are expensive Termagants, but their extra movement seems like it would make them tactically more valuable, and their Blind would definitely make them a better tarpit. I suspect they would be a higher-priority target than Termagants too, making them less likely to be ignored turn after turn. If I can find the points, I may try them next game, but I have low expectations.
Raveners: I do not own any of these, and I am not convinced they are worth it. They look like Warriors who trade in Synapse for Deep Strike. I do not believe that is a good trade. They will DS, get shot off the table and have served no purpose.
Heavy Support
Biovores: I do not own any of these yet, but in both games I felt I needed some long-range pie. I suspect a brood of these may be my next purchase, though I hate the new minis for them. They would also require babysitting (likely 90 points of Warriors), which adds a bit of a tax to their cost.
Carnifex: So slow. The big cannon ones do not seem to put out enough dakka to justify their cost, while the Devourer and melee ones are useless until turn three or four. When they finally get into the action they earn their points pretty quickly. I can imagine those drop pods would make a Dakkafex pretty darn scary, but even then I am not convinced by the melee-fex builds. I will likely keep a Dakkafex in my list going forward, but it is still a little underwhelming.
Exocrine: I do not own one of these, and feel I am unlikely to do so any time soon. They are inferior to Hive Guard against transports, obsolete as anti-MEQ in an entire army of anti-infantry units, short-ranged and low Ld. Meh?
Mawloc: I do not own one of these yet, but they are definitely useful. A powerful pie plate that may strike trice in a single turn? Yummy! I am sure it will die after that, but I would expect it would have already more than earned its points (these things seem pretty cheap for what they provide). I will definitely consider one of these in the near future.
Trygon/Trygon Prime: Way too expensive and pretty useless. The bio-electric dakka is about as scary as a Leman Russ Punisher (ie laugh at the opponent who fielded it) and it does not live to assault. Even if I got one into assault, I cannot see it being all that good. I think these guys are 40-50 points over-costed for what they bring. The tunnel is nice, if you get one of these out turn two, but that is too unreliable to build a list around.
Tyrannofex: I do not own one of these and am undecided on whether or not to invest in one. A Torrent weapon is nothing spectacular, but the platform is sturdy enough to make it a little more interesting. It is slow and short-ranged, so it would not be a high-priority target, yet by the time your opponent decides to deal with it they will find it a little too late (do they shoot the Tyrannofex, the Dakkafex, the FMCs or the remaining Synapse?). I could see it providing a threat overload that could only help. Still, at that cost, it would be pretty hard to include on the list...
