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Post by mattblowers on Jun 15, 2015 12:51:53 GMT
This weekend, based on a comment by N.I.B. I decided to run podded heavy list again. I have 5 (2 scratch built) but only worked in 4 to the list. I podded a t-fex, 2 dakkafexes, and a unit of pyrovores. You are going to take losses here, but that is ok. The turn you arrive you WILL do a lot of damage. You are gonna lose them footslogging anyway, why not get the chance to do some really heavy damage before you die? I put minimum on the board (1 unit of rippers hidden out of LOS behind an ADL and 2 muculids in ruins). My opponent killed a mucolid on turn 1. On turn 2 most of my army came in and I went to work. Surprisingly enough the pods themselves did the most damage (I upgraded them to BS, that's 20 pie plates per turn which is gonna do some damage). I've played t-cytes both with and without the ITC ruling and that makes all the difference. With the ITC ruling they just don't do enough damage to be worth their points, your opponent can largely ignore them. When you play them with MC rules (why anyone decided to make them shoot like a vehicle is beyond me) for targeting their ability to focus fire is really good. I recommend it. Give it a whirl, see what you think. |
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yarlun
Gaunt
Please be kind Senpai...
Posts: 43 
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Post by yarlun on Jun 15, 2015 14:33:24 GMT
Going off on a slight tangent... I've already made 2 pods and 1 sporo... I have 2 more to make... so question is, do I make 1 pod and 1 sporo? or both into one or the other? I've never used the sporo in a game yet, so I don't have any first hand experience with it (though I have heard some good things on this site).
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Post by nurglitch on Jun 15, 2015 14:33:52 GMT
Seems like a good way to drip-feed your army into a meat-grinder.
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Post by N.I.B. on Jun 15, 2015 14:44:11 GMT
I haven't seen anyone else try to run a pod-spam build (6-8 Tyrannocytes with units inside), Who runs that? I haven't seen it at all. I'd love to hear if it works at all. But that's 450-800 points for that many pods. I haven't even liked it when I ran 3, too many points get eaten up with pods. This way at least you can drop one on each objective and camp out. Well, I do  Don't know anyone else that have even tried it, and the ludicrous ITC ruling made it a stupid build. If you remember I ran null deployment with 8 pods back in 5th ed, and it worked pretty good with the cheap eggs (Mycetic Spores), took it to a couple of tournaments. Haven't had much success in 7th ed though: thetyranidhive.proboards.com/thread/49073/podshameNot giving up completely though, it's just so awesome when it works, and most opponents seem to really enjoy it as something completely different. I have a couple of tweaks I'd like to try. |
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Post by mattblowers on Jun 15, 2015 14:47:47 GMT
yarlun: I don't like the sporocyst at all. I can't make it work. A drop pod takes it out of the game unless you the venom cannon on it. nurglitch: Not at all. It's a way to get in your opponents face turn 2. 3 droopds with dakkafexes and t-fex, 1 DS crone, and 1 DS flyrant were in my opponents face on turn 2 and my other crone and flyrants were at midfield after flying on the table. I lost a dakkafex and t-fex on bottom of turn 2 but I took out far more points than I lost. The rest of the game was him trying to react to me, not something we could effectively do pre-tcyte. Not giving up completely though, it's just so awesome when it works, and most opponents seem to really enjoy it as something completely different. I have a couple of tweaks I'd like to try. Let me know how it works. Non ITC the BS upgrade is devastating. You gave me inspiration to try it out and I was pleasantly surprised. You're correct in that both me and my opponent had more fun than we had in a while. It was something completely different.
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Post by nurglitch on Jun 15, 2015 15:44:33 GMT
How're you deep-striking the Crone and Hive Tyrant?
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Post by mattblowers on Jun 15, 2015 16:21:59 GMT
How're you deep-striking the Crone and Hive Tyrant? "if a flying monstrous creature arrives via deep strike reserve, it always counts as being in swooping mode" BRB: Unit Type ==> Flying Monstrous Creatures ==> Deployment. Wings make you jump infantry which conveys deep strike. |
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Post by nurglitch on Jun 15, 2015 16:28:31 GMT
No, Wings make a model a Flying Monstrous Creature, which means they can either Swoop (fly) or Glide (more like Jump Monstrous Creatures). Units like the Bloodthirster are able to Deep Strike because they have the Deep Strike rule, and when they Deep Strike they have to do so in Swooping mode.
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Post by N.I.B. on Jun 15, 2015 17:12:43 GMT
Non ITC the BS upgrade is devastating. You think Barbed Stranglers are a good upgrade? I dunno, 75pts are already too expensive for a pod imo. For three upgraded Tcytes you could have another Tcyte. I've never tried upgrades, but I don't like them in theory. If I would, I'd probably go with Venomcannons, since most other things in the army kills infantry, and that S6 AP4 mess up Necrons pretty well plus it can threaten AV 12. VC adds options to the army while BS makes it better at what it's good at. I don't think there's a reason to deepstrike a FMC in a podspam build, 42" effective range on Flyrants are usually enough when they come in from your table edge, with a zero chance to mishap. |
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Post by mattblowers on Jun 15, 2015 17:43:11 GMT
No, Wings make a model a Flying Monstrous Creature, which means they can either Swoop (fly) or Glide (more like Jump Monstrous Creatures). Units like the Bloodthirster are able to Deep Strike because they have the Deep Strike rule, and when they Deep Strike they have to do so in Swooping mode. The last edition made it really clear that they could deep strike, the only debate was if you could deepstrike in from ongoing reserves. Nothing in this edition excluded that, and my quote actually would be in support of it being permitted. Some of this comes down to your take on 40K rules: are they permissive or restrictive? I tend to follow permissive, that clause can be interpreted as being permissive. Since GW can't be bohtered with an FAQ anymore, rule intentions are hard to discern. As always, of course, know how it's called where you play and follow those rulings though. My game spot on Saturday allows deepstrking FMCs so I did. You think Barbed Stranglers are a good upgrade? I dunno, 75pts are already too expensive for a pod imo. For three upgraded Tcytes you could have another Tcyte. Yes, I do think it's worth it. 20 pie plates is nothing to sneeze at. I was piling on the wounds. Remember this is all geting there turn 2 so my fire output was wilting. He was still pretty bunched up so the plates really did a number. DS at BS2 just aren't good enough. That's only 20ish hits with them; the same number of large blasts I was getting. Wounding most infantry on a 4 and assuming an average of only 4 hits/large blast (I was getting more than that) you are still causing 40 saves, nearly double the saves from the deathspitters. AND they are all pinning. My opponent actually wanted to kill the t-cytes instead of just ingnoring them like they do the DS ones. That alone makes it worth it b/c that's 6 T5 wounds from an MC they have to chew through. Like I said, I hadn't tried this previously and my opponent had owned me the last few games that we have had (I've been doing a lot of playtesting lately) so I needed to change things up. Not sure my final thoughts on it yet, but it has potential. |
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Post by nurglitch on Jun 15, 2015 17:56:18 GMT
That's all that matters. On the other hand it's probably good to put that out front so that you save other people the arguments when their local gaming group or TO disagrees.
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Post by Kark on Jun 15, 2015 19:07:34 GMT
You think Barbed Stranglers are a good upgrade? I dunno, 75pts are already too expensive for a pod imo. For three upgraded Tcytes you could have another Tcyte. I've never tried upgrades, but I don't like them in theory. If I would, I'd probably go with Venomcannons, since most other things in the army kills infantry, and that S6 AP4 mess up Necrons pretty well plus it can threaten AV 12. VC adds options to the army while BS makes it better at what it's good at. I don't think there's a reason to deepstrike a FMC in a podspam build, 42" effective range on Flyrants are usually enough when they come in from your table edge, with a zero chance to mishap. Some tyranid players I know use barbed stranglers on tyrannocytes. According to ETC clarification all large blasts fire at the same target and this make them worth the points. I would go with BS rather. VCs have S6, but smaller blasts means less hits and differance between AP5 and AP4 is minimal especially that we want that hits on wraiths, bikes, jetbikes or 2+ save or 2+ cover save units. BS can also threat swarms like guardsmen blobs, but their sv is 5+, so strangler is enough. S6 on cannons may sound tempting, but I think that devourers can do the job better. Also t-cyte with stranglers can be some form of alternative to mawlocs. I also think that flyrants swooping from Your own table edge is better idea than deepstriking (in most cases). It's safer, too. |
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Post by N.I.B. on Jun 16, 2015 8:49:30 GMT
You might be right about BS vs VC vs DS, it's mostly about the meta you expect to face. But I suspect we're comparing apples and oranges - a pod spam build (5-8 Tcytes) is more about the cargo than the transport. You can't really afford the upgrades.
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Post by mattblowers on Jun 16, 2015 11:35:33 GMT
You might be right about BS vs VC vs DS, it's mostly about the meta you expect to face. But I suspect we're comparing apples and oranges - a pod spam build (5-8 Tcytes) is more about the cargo than the transport. You can't really afford the upgrades. Do you play biovores? If so, then why would it not be worth it. You're essentially getting the same output for 25 points vs 120 pts for 3 biovores, seems like a pretty fair cost to me. Without the damage output, I find t-cytes don't carry enough weight to be worth it for cargo only. it has the tendency to deliver contents so much ahead of the rest of your army that there's not much synergy. If, on the other hand, the t-cyte is a threat they need to deal with, then synergies can begin to form. In any case, I'm on board with spamming them, less than 3 just is too hit or miss. |
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Post by N.I.B. on Jun 16, 2015 13:30:13 GMT
Nope, I don't play Biovores. There's a fresh thread with the reasons why not, somewhere here. I see your point though. You might be right about BS vs VC vs DS, it's mostly about the meta you expect to face. But I suspect we're comparing apples and oranges - a pod spam build (5-8 Tcytes) is more about the cargo than the transport. You can't really afford the upgrades. it has the tendency to deliver contents so much ahead of the rest of your army that there's not much synergy. In any case, I'm on board with spamming them, less than 3 just is too hit or miss. You're proving my point, that we're comparing apples and oranges. A list that maximises T-cytes doesn't really have a backline - you need to saturate a part of the board with the units as they arrive from reserve, in order to build synergy and have them support each other, and cripple the enemy in that part of the board. Once you have an area secured, you move towards the rest of the enemy army. That's one of the strenghts of the build, that you can often put extreme pressure on just a part of the enemy lines. Build a list with 5-8 pods and try to fit in the upgrades as well as the cargo. It's not happening, unless you gimp the transported units. In a list with just a few sprinkled pods, sure, it could be a nice investment. But the thread is named 'maxing T-cytes' ... Victory conditions also often rewards having many units for objective holding and things like Linebreaker, were it's better to have 4 DS Tcytes than 3 upgrades ones. But, it's nice to hear that you have success, continue to test ideas and post how it's working for you, I'm prepared to change my mind if I'm wrong. It's not like I'm rolling people with pod spam anyway |
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Don't know anyone else that have even tried it, and the ludicrous ITC ruling made it a stupid build. If you remember I ran null deployment with 8 pods back in 5th ed, and it worked pretty good with the cheap eggs (Mycetic Spores), took it to a couple of tournaments. Haven't had much success in 7th ed though: