Using Proxies

[coolbreeze303]

Greetings Hive,

Today I played my first game since late 2nd and it was a fantastic experience. Using miniatures that have been modeled and painted, and then used in battle was a fantastic experience. On top of that I played someone who has started using Tyranids as his 3rd army I believe.

Anyway, the reason for this post is that he used proxies for the weapons on his Flyrant, Carnifex and Tyrannofex. I had no issue with it during the game, but looking back it seemed unnecessary. My opponent had roughly 3k worth of nids at his disposal. I brought 1250 because that's all I have that is battle ready.

What's everyone's overall feelings towards using proxies. For me personally, the jury is still out. On one hand yeah it would be great to have TL Devs on everything that could shoot, but I have strong feels towards WYSIWYG, meaning that if I wanted modeled a certain way I would make it that way.

I apologize if this rant seems scattered and all over the place. Thanks for letting me rant.

[amoras]

Im totaly fine with people using proxies to try out new stuff but if you are gonna keep using themm get the real thing.

[angelwing]

Proxies to try something new, or replace a model that gets broken / forgotten to bring just before the game is fine as long as there aren't too many for me to remember. If I see the same thing week after week I tend to get a bit irritated. I do understand why its done as prices are high, and some folks just don't like painting / modelling.
I myself don't use anything unless its painted (keeps the paint pile down) and keep everything WYSIWYG as far as reasonable. Wargear can occasionally be an issue eg grenades (nobody expects you to model all grenade types) or biomorphs (could be internal, but must be declared before the game if not on the model) but I do expect the main gun / beat stick to be modelled as is.

[fnorrll]

Ehh it depends.

I'll proxy AG/TS on just about anything as I never want to commit to gluing them on or not, you know?

Other than that... I confess I do proxy weapons on my MC but I'm literally in the process of magnetising the load outs on them now so that I don't have to, and in theory I don't think it's great to proxy a load out regularly. For example if you always run a dakkafex, and don't wanna magnetise, put the guns on him. If as a one off you want him to have scytals, proxy. But don't model with scytals and proxy for dakkafex every time. If you love the look of scytals but wanna run dakka, model Devs on to him somehow.

That's my general idea

[Jabberwocky]

If you've put dozens of hours into modelling and painting and even converting a model, then a codex updates invalidates or cripples a weapon loadout, I think it's quite reasonable to play it as something else.

If your army is heavily kitbashed or converted for fluff or aesthetic, I think it's reasonable to play it as whatever you want as long as there is consistency and the opponent can easily keep track of what is what.

The thing I have real issue with, is when an opponent uses various different models to represent various other models, purely in an effort to list tailor against the opponent. Against another opponent, they'll play them as something else. They might even use a deliberately generic model to avoid attention on that special weapon or character.

[mattblowers]

I hate dakkafex look, so my dakkafexes have a TLD on each lower arm and a scytal on the upper arms. Keeps the aesthetic and wyswig the same. Since scytals give no benefit anymore its no big deal.

[Deleted]

Tournaments should aim for WYSIWYG.

Ideally you should use the actual model.

But if someone wants to proxy something, as long as the size differences aren't too outlandish I'm fine with it. Also I appreciate it when they remind me what it is periodically, cause I'm likely to forget(ex, one time we used a lamp shaped kind of like a mayan pyramid to proxy a monolith for crons but I kept thinking it was terrain cause that's what we normally used it as).

People imo shouldn't discourage proxy play. The hobby has a hard enough time without people not wanting to play others because models are unpainted, or partially built, etc. Sure, Ideally everyone brings a painted WYSIWYG everything to the table. But that really only has an aesthetic impact on the game, which I'm personally more about than the other elements of the hobby even though I do enjoy painting in shorter bursts.


EDIT: though if he has the models he needs to not proxy, he should use them WITHOUT restricting his army composition. 3000 points is a lot, but it's also easy to inflate points values without knowing too many details. Maybe he has 3 toxicrenes? That's great that they'd be about 10% of his tyranids but those are models that rarely see the light of day. Or maybe he has 100 genestealers.  I mean heck 2 flyrants is 500 points basically. 

Also with the devourers, it's really easy for tyranids to make weapons that are counts as that get respected as WYSIWYG pretty across the board. I mean I have devourers attached to scything talon thumbs so I can use them as either- have used them in local tourneys with no complaints or even anyone batting an eye. So playing against tyranids it's wise imo to if you're unsure ask. 

I mean I have a kitbashed biovore. I have a kitbashed lictor, a kitbashed hive guard.  And my opponents even who are experienced fighting tyranids are forever mixing up tyranid names, so most of them are clearly unsure of what the non-imperial stuff is anyways. 

[Hive Bahamut]

I have proxied 100% of my Tyranid games because GW doesn't feel obligated to give us the weapon our codex is named after. There is a hard core WYSIWYG marine player in our group and he always gives me a hard time. I tell him to go f@^# himself because he has absolutely everything available in kits. I ask if he had no melta gun would he just not blow up tanks? No response.

The only time I LIKE to proxy is if I'm trying something new, which I even recommend this method instead of dumping $100 on a new kit to find you don't like it at all.

GW has got a lot better but they are still stupid for repacking the Flyrant and Carnifex without Brain leech.

[emoge]

I'm 100% proxy. I don't have devourers on any of my flyrants or carnifexes, because they look so stupid and tiny for S6 weapons.. Most of my stuff is magnetized, so on my carnifexes and flyrants I just toss 2-4 deathspitters or I use fleshborer hives instead.

I've never had a complaint about anything, mostly because I'm the only tyranid player and no one knows what the weapons look like.

We're in this game for the long haul and I'm not going to tear apart my models every 2 years to rebuild them for the new codex.

[broyston]

May 31, 2015 16:37:25 GMT emoge said:

We're in this game for the long haul and I'm not going to tear apart my models every 2 years to rebuild them for the new codex.

Ah, that's where you are going wrong, GW don't want you to tear apart your models, you should buy new ones and model them with the new best loadout........

[Hive Bahamut]

As I said too with when the Tryhard came out. Dual kits WILL flip flop every edition for the most part.

Tervigon Tyrannofex
Mawloc Tryhard

Those are the worst offenders but most do it.

Having been a Nid player and accepting the magnets it's amazing how many people are astonished and amazed that you took the effort to do it. Why? Well because our guns become obsolete or even illegal when our book gets updated.

[iyama]

I proxy if I have to but only in regards to weapons,for example warriors are my favourite unit and I love loading them with deathspitters, trouble is I can't always justify the points on taking them so sometimes stick with devourers so the weapon is proxies. But I will not proxy a gaunt as a lictor or similar (as an exaggerated example) same as my winged hive tyrants are modeled with TLDWBLW but I will proxy their weapons as bonesword lash whips etc rather than buy another kit.

[yoritomo]

All of my gaunts are armed with fleshborers, though I will sometimes proxy them with devourers. Yes, I may have several thousand points of tyranids, but I am not buying another hundred and fifty gaunts just so I can swap weapon load outs on a for point model.

Normally MCs would be different, however, since they don't give you any twin-linked devourers in MC kits you have to convert something and then proxy it as devourers.

[BattleMetalChris]

Depends on the player. Me and my main opponent only have about 1500 points of models each, so getting new kit is a big deal; we are happy to let each other proxy as much as we want.

If I was playing a player with 8k points at his disposal, all painted, and he was trying to proxy the same thing week after week, I'd tell them to get out their wallet and just buy the damn figure.

[glitchrr36]

I'm fine with proxying as long as it makes sense. If some asked "hey, I wasn't able to get the assault marine kit in time, mind if I use some of these tactical marines with markers?" I would be fine with it. If some said "hey, see that one guardsmen? No, the other one. Yeah. He's an imperial knight." I'd laugh at his face and come back when he could find something that could actually be the model.