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Post by Halollet on May 17, 2015 14:25:54 GMT
The internal balance is horrendous in the codex, without a 240 point flyrant we would be in such a bad state. Being able to field 3-5 with 2 detachments is pretty ridiculous but has to be done to have any competitiveness This. So this. Just look over at the Nid Lists board and all the tourney lists and they're just Dakka Flyrants, Mucolids, Dakka Flyrants, Lictors, Dakka Flyrants, and Mawlocs.... and Dakka Flyrants. That is not a balanced Codex. GW, did really good with the Tau codex. There is a reason to take a Commander, an ethereal, and/or a fireblade. They all have their perks, they're all worth their points, and the codex has several viable army builds that make use of each choice. The commander or the ethereal can both be played as something defensively (drone controllers, FNP) or offensively (fusion blasters, extra shots). Why can't I have that viability with our HQ choices? Someone on here said that it seems that someone who doesn't know nids is writing our rules. This is kinda obvious with the obvious idiocy of the firing rules for the Tyrannocyte. Did someone not tell the guy that MCs don't have 'facing'? I tried making a fluffy stealer list, but I couldn't come up with an HQ choice to suit it. The prime can't infiltrate, or even join stealers at the beginning of the game. Its sucks. Making a balanced codex should be the focus of us/GW. Reading this thread gave me an idea for IB. Why don't creatures get a bonus under the lash of the hive mind? Make it a boost while under synapse! Make it a benefit with drawbacks instead of a kick in the nuts. IB - While under Synapse - while not Feed - MCs get Rampage other creatures get rage - moves and charges closest enemy. Hunt - get +1 bs - Fires at closest target Lurk - ... not sure about this, ignore difficult terrain while moving? - Flees to terrain and gains stealth The fact that the joke of "Codex:Devourers" exists, further shows how off the internal balance is. Brain leech Devourers need some kind of nerf, I'm sorry but they do. The only other option is beefing up Venom Cannons and Strangletorns to be on par which starts to get silly.. Maybe even just taking away the devourer's TL or reducing the shots to 4-5. Again, I'll use the example of the Tau codex. Whenever a noob asks which crisis suit layout is the best, the answer is, its all good, what ever your army needs. You ask what weapon layout is best for a tyrant or a fex, TL Devourers or you're stupid. That's wrong but painfully correct.
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Post by yowster12 on May 17, 2015 15:20:30 GMT
The internal balance is horrendous in the codex, without a 240 point flyrant we would be in such a bad state. Being able to field 3-5 with 2 detachments is pretty ridiculous but has to be done to have any competitiveness This. So this. Just look over at the Nid Lists board and all the tourney lists and they're just Dakka Flyrants, Mucolids, Dakka Flyrants, Lictors, Dakka Flyrants, and Mawlocs.... and Dakka Flyrants. That is not a balanced Codex. GW, did really good with the Tau codex. There is a reason to take a Commander, an ethereal, and/or a fireblade. They all have their perks, they're all worth their points, and the codex has several viable army builds that make use of each choice. The commander or the ethereal can both be played as something defensively (drone controllers, FNP) or offensively (fusion blasters, extra shots). Why can't I have that viability with our HQ choices? Someone on here said that it seems that someone who doesn't know nids is writing our rules. This is kinda obvious with the obvious idiocy of the firing rules for the Tyrannocyte. Did someone not tell the guy that MCs don't have 'facing'? I tried making a fluffy stealer list, but I couldn't come up with an HQ choice to suit it. The prime can't infiltrate, or even join stealers at the beginning of the game. Its sucks. Making a balanced codex should be the focus of us/GW. Reading this thread gave me an idea for IB. Why don't creatures get a bonus under the lash of the hive mind? Make it a boost while under synapse! Make it a benefit with drawbacks instead of a kick in the nuts. IB - While under Synapse - while not Feed - MCs get Rampage other creatures get rage - moves and charges closest enemy. Hunt - get +1 bs - Fires at closest target Lurk - ... not sure about this, ignore difficult terrain while moving? - Flees to terrain and gains stealth The fact that the joke of "Codex:Devourers" exists, further shows how off the internal balance is. Brain leech Devourers need some kind of nerf, I'm sorry but they do. The only other option is beefing up Venom Cannons and Strangletorns to be on par which starts to get silly.. Maybe even just taking away the devourer's TL or reducing the shots to 4-5. Again, I'll use the example of the Tau codex. Whenever a noob asks which crisis suit layout is the best, the answer is, its all good, what ever your army needs. You ask what weapon layout is best for a tyrant or a fex, TL Devourers or you're stupid. That's wrong but painfully correct. Thing is I dont consider that Devs should be nerfed. We have no access to melta almost no access to Plasma and we are slower than most armies. Stranglethorn Cannon and Venom Cannon variants need a buff. Oh and MC Deathspitters need A Buff ASAP. I would accept the Devs Nerf if those got a huge buff since those are supposed to be stronger. But I agree with your general sentiment. We need a balanced codex ASAP.
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Post by rpricew on May 17, 2015 15:39:02 GMT
Deathspitters should outrange Devourers... Venom Cannon needs to be direct fire, Stranglethorn & Barbed Strangler should Ignore Cover giving Stranglethorn rending.
Please bring back living ammunition!
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2015 15:53:30 GMT
Deathspitters should outrange Devourers... Venom Cannon needs to be direct fire, Stranglethorn & Barbed Strangler should Ignore Cover giving Stranglethorn rending. Please bring back living ammunition! Oh yeah ! and the old rule for scything talons we need a codex like the craftworld, with balanced units, with useful units it makes me sick to see useless units like pyrovore, raveners (i love the model !!!), trygon, tyrant guards with a hive tyrant, tyranofex more power to units like haruspex (it has a great potential, but too expensive and too slow) and it makes me sick to see how GW can be creative for the imperium to invent new weapons and give them more and more powerful weapons (look at skitarii, ad mech and titan, it's insane) but for tyranid, there is nothing as usual cheaper units, about 20% less A new wargear, with AP 3-2 or 1 destroyer weapons my necrons are quicker and better in melee than my tyranids..... it's a shame
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Post by rpricew on May 17, 2015 16:10:53 GMT
my necrons are quicker and better in melee than my tyranids..... it's a shame I would describe them as more durable, and that's what makes them better. Our ability to dish out pain in CC is pretty good. I haven't met a unit of Wraiths that really wants to tussle with Toxic Hormagaunts and Blinding Venom toting Gargoyles (My recipe for defeating Wraiths). However, the ability to shrug off 5 of 6 wounds means...that 10 wound Wraith Unit needs to take 60 wounds to die! That's just crazy! Kill the Spider and Blind the Wraiths, and they fold like butter!
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2015 17:35:11 GMT
mmmmh yes, so these wraiths didn't have whip coils ? i don't play horma because there are weak (they were WS4 but ... now 3) . but why not. for gargoyles, it's funny because i never hurt a unit of wraith with them, so no blind test, and there are I3 so more resistant to blind rule and even if you count on this, they have enough attacks in a unit of 5 (i play 6 of them) to almost kill a unit of 15 horma or to kill 10 gargoyles in a single assault. their 3++ save is a pain in the ass like for the zoanthrope, and don't forget the RP from the spider (and the spider gains RP too) in a reclamation legion so 4+
the venom blind should be 5+ poisonned and not 6, because you need to hurt on a 6 to use blind rule and it's not easy at all :/
but they hate poisonned warriors (héhé) and paroxysm
i would love to see back without number rule or the equivalent of the rule from apocalypse
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Post by yowster12 on May 17, 2015 18:26:08 GMT
mmmmh yes, so these wraiths didn't have whip coils ? i don't play horma because there are weak (they were WS4 but ... now 3) . but why not. for gargoyles, it's funny because i never hurt a unit of wraith with them, so no blind test, and there are I3 so more resistant to blind rule and even if you count on this, they have enough attacks in a unit of 5 (i play 6 of them) to almost kill a unit of 15 horma or to kill 10 gargoyles in a single assault. their 3++ save is a pain in the ass like for the zoanthrope, and don't forget the RP from the spider (and the spider gains RP too) in a reclamation legion so 4+ the venom blind should be 5+ poisonned and not 6, because you need to hurt on a 6 to use blind rule and it's not easy at all :/ but they hate poisonned warriors (héhé) and paroxysm i would love to see back without number rule or the equivalent of the rule from apocalypse Blind only has to hit.
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Post by rpricew on May 17, 2015 19:05:55 GMT
mmmmh yes, so these wraiths didn't have whip coils ? i don't play horma because there are weak (they were WS4 but ... now 3) . but why not. for gargoyles, it's funny because i never hurt a unit of wraith with them, so no blind test, and there are I3 so more resistant to blind rule and even if you count on this, they have enough attacks in a unit of 5 (i play 6 of them) to almost kill a unit of 15 horma or to kill 10 gargoyles in a single assault. their 3++ save is a pain in the ass like for the zoanthrope, and don't forget the RP from the spider (and the spider gains RP too) in a reclamation legion so 4+ the venom blind should be 5+ poisoned and not 6, because you need to hurt on a 6 to use blind rule and it's not easy at all :/ but they hate poisoned warriors (héhé) and paroxysm i would love to see back without number rule or the equivalent of the rule from apocalypse I've done this many many times and it works almost 95% of the time. Wraiths are I2 and with Whipcoils, they become I5. Therefore the Wraiths and the Hormagaunts strike at the same time. The key is to multicharge with the Hormagaunts and Gargoyles, or if you are going to receive the charge, take the majority of it on the Hormagaunts, but use the Gargoyles to screen and "entice" your opponent to multi-assault them too. If they Multi-Assault you, then they make a Disorganized charge, which costs you 6 Wraith Attacks. The idea isn't to necessarily destroy the Wraith Unit, but to tie it up for 3-4 Game Turns with a large unit of Hormagaunts and Gargoyles. Typically 24-30 Hormagaunts with Toxin Sacs and 10 regular Gargoyles. Since all you have to do is "Hit" with a single Gargoyle, and the Blind test is done on the unmodified Initiative of the Wraith... 66% chance of them failing. Then the Wraiths are hitting on 5's instead of 3's. Most of my opponent's bring 4-5 Wraiths and the Hormagaunts will win that combat almost every time. Taking 6 Wraiths, is the Sweet spot of the Necrons. If that happens, then the Spider has to die for the Wraiths to go down with just the Hormagaunts and Gargoyles. Therefore I change tactics and send the Flyrants after the Spiders. Another fun thing is to do is run a Harpy in with the Hormagaunts... that (-5) to the Wraiths initiative will make the Hormagaunt charge that much better.
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Post by arapaima on May 18, 2015 1:01:00 GMT
Some general army rule that allows our close combat units to move fast. Better list of bio artifacts, something that is expensive, unique and make our synapse creature a force to be reckoned with when push comes to shift. Our own version of the blood thithe system that let us brings in reinforcement or make the army stronger as bodies starts piling up.
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Post by N.I.B. on May 18, 2015 8:41:11 GMT
Since all you have to do is "Hit" with a single Gargoyle, and the Blind test is done on the unmodified Initiative of the Wraith... 66% chance of them failing. Then the Wraiths are hitting on 5's instead of 3's. Blind doesn't kick in until at the end of the combat round. Just saying.
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Post by rpricew on May 18, 2015 13:13:50 GMT
Since all you have to do is "Hit" with a single Gargoyle, and the Blind test is done on the unmodified Initiative of the Wraith... 66% chance of them failing. Then the Wraiths are hitting on 5's instead of 3's. Blind doesn't kick in until at the end of the combat round. Just saying. This is true... That's why you want the Wraiths to multi-attack you on their turn. So that they are "probably" blind on your turn and every turn after that. Otherwise, they aren't Blinded until the start of the 3rd assault phase instead of the 2nd.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2015 14:11:44 GMT
mouais... but what if they choose shred with the spider, it's weird because if i'm your opponent, i'm not stupid enough to let a big unit of 30 horma that cost 240 pts to come against a unit of wraiths, they will be probably half of them at turn 2 if they can charge moreover, if this unit is joined with a destroyer lord there is no need to use shred so you have both avantages of RP + PE (the worse thing of the codex for me), your hormagaunts are dead against 6 wraiths even if you have gargoyles or not
after it's ok, you could blind them indeed. with 1 single attack that hit on 4+ and on initiative 3 and you need to succeed a 6+ poisoned attack so i don't understand your tactic, blind works on hit indeed but for gargoyles it's a stupid rule
but i don't know, i need to test that, in fact nobody plays hormagaunts, and i can play a lot of things more durable than 30 poisoned hormagaunt
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Post by N.I.B. on May 18, 2015 14:45:35 GMT
after it's ok, you could blind them indeed. with 1 single attack that hit on 4+ and on initiative 3 and you need to succeed a 6+ poisoned attack so i don't understand your tactic, blind works on hit indeed but for gargoyles it's a stupid rule One single attack - per model. So you can make 5-6 Gargoyles do a Blind attack on assault just to be sure to get a hit, while the others get their bonus attacks. And if you know Blind works on hit, what are you rambling about need to succeed a 6+ poison attack for? Confusing post.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2015 15:17:03 GMT
after it's ok, you could blind them indeed. with 1 single attack that hit on 4+ and on initiative 3 and you need to succeed a 6+ poisoned attack so i don't understand your tactic, blind works on hit indeed but for gargoyles it's a stupid rule One single attack - per model. So you can make 5-6 Gargoyles do a Blind attack on assault just to be sure to get a hit, while the others get their bonus attacks. And if you know Blind works on hit, what are you rambling about need to succeed a 6+ poison attack for? Confusing post. AH OOOOOH !!!! AH YES !! lol i understand ! ^^ no it's the poisoned 6+ that troubled me ahah sorry
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Post by rpricew on May 18, 2015 16:10:52 GMT
One single attack - per model. So you can make 5-6 Gargoyles do a Blind attack on assault just to be sure to get a hit, while the others get their bonus attacks. And if you know Blind works on hit, what are you rambling about need to succeed a 6+ poison attack for? Confusing post. AH OOOOOH !!!! AH YES !! lol i understand ! ^^ no it's the poisoned 6+ that troubled me ahah sorry Manu, I started running Hormagaunts to counter the Wraith Star... If my opponent chooses Shred over Re-Animation protocols, then those Wraiths and Lord are DEAD! Because then he's losing 1/3 wounds instead of 1/6 wounds. Hormagaunts are pretty darn FAST... almost as fast as the Wraiths, and with that footprint, the Wraiths can't hide from them. Most Necron players assume that they are going to just wreck the Hormagaunts and will dive in... I've done it over a dozen times since the Necron codex got it's update. I'm practicing a different style list at the moment (Flying Circus) otherwise, I would still be running these guys.
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